smallfoot
He's rockin' the "Nuttin Special"!
You're gonna like those gears. I have 3.08 in my 31 and thought they would be too mild until some people here corrected me. Plenty of umph in a light truck...2.75 should be great cruisers...!
Hercules
- Thread starter zzrodder
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zzrodder
It ain't grey hair, it's chrome!
Yes, very happy with the change....
On another note, today was an epic fail, wiped out a lobe and lifter on the new Comp Cams Thumper cam
Did all the usual lubing of the lobes and bearings, lifters, pushrods, rockers, etc., - even purged the lifters before putting them in and used hi zinc oil, to no avail...
Ten minutes in on the 2000 rpm break in one rocker started clacking for a minute then stopped - figured maybe some dirt plugged the lifter ?? Then at about 15 minutes it started hammering again. Finished the break in time and it's still doing it. Being a moron, I took it around the block, hoping it would magically go away. Nope. Drained the oil and found the telltale silver pearly color...
Guess what - it's out of stock from Comp and others like Summit. I'm actually considering putting the old cam and lifters in from the 360...
Or looking for an alternative - more $$$$
gene49
Well-known member
Modern cam and lifters suck compared to the old stuff.
Sorry for what you have to go through now.
Sorry for what you have to go through now.
smallfoot
He's rockin' the "Nuttin Special"!
OUCH!
Old Iron
Well-known member
Hate to hear that.
The last SBC I built done that, when I re-done the build I put a roller cam and a set of roller lifters in it, problem solved. I'd have been money and labor ahead to of went that route to start with.
The last SBC I built done that, when I re-done the build I put a roller cam and a set of roller lifters in it, problem solved. I'd have been money and labor ahead to of went that route to start with.
bob w
Still crazy after all these years!
That's why I get reground cams on stock factory sticks. I use the lightest valve springs that will serve the purpose.
zzrodder
It ain't grey hair, it's chrome!
Roller cam and lifters for an FE Ford is like $2000.00 Canadian, hard to justify it for this engine....
Hard to place just why it failed, did all the steps needed and pre-lubed the engine by driving the oil pump, turning the engine to different positions to get oil everywhere - seems to be a crapshoot with product quality..
Back to the drawing board, more parts and shop time....
BillM
Well-known member
Sorry to hear that ZZ. There's been all kinds of stories online about cam/lifter problems recently. I'll see if I can attach some of the better links when I get a chance. The most plausible theory I've seen is that even with break in lube, today's oils have so much detergent in them that the break in lube/zinc/additives are washed away before the cam and lifters get to "know each other". I think the suggestion was to use the break-in lube along with a good oil such as Penn1 or equivalent.
Bamamav
Well-known member
It’s not the oil, it’s the sorry metal in the cams and flat lifters. There hasn’t been a US built engine with a flat tappet cam from the factory since, what, 1995? The cam blanks being turned are majority roller blanks and are treated a different way. The few flat cam blanks made are stored until someone orders them, they might then send out 10-20 at a time. So really you only have a couple of choices, roller, or try to find an nos oem flat tappet.
There’s a long video on YouTube about this. I think it was Lake Speed and some other guys explaining it all. It popped up in my suggested clips box one rainy day and I watched it throughout.
There’s a long video on YouTube about this. I think it was Lake Speed and some other guys explaining it all. It popped up in my suggested clips box one rainy day and I watched it throughout.
lowbudget50
Creators of all things awesome
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- Sep 23, 2012
- Messages
- 5,829
That does suck!! I have had a few go bad on break in on Me also. The last comp I did I let it idle for a few min then went and drove it. No 2000 RPM break in sitting in the shop. That's where all mine have failed. It survived, not sure if it was the better thing to do or I just got lucky hahah
BillM
Well-known member
Here's the video that I thought was reliable......at least as reliable as anything WWW these days!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohR5rcuYPr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohR5rcuYPr0
bob w
Still crazy after all these years!
No comments on the use of reground cams? Works for me. Also, I check new flat tappet lifters for slight crown on the bottom. Lifter gotta rotate.
Rockable
Well-known member
My experience with losing a lobe on the cam has been because of faulty lifters. Back just after Covid, I bought a new cam and lifters for a 455 Buick I was building and lost a lobe after doing everything I knew correctly. Then, I ordered another cam and another set of lifters and had a buddy come over to listen at start up. In just a couple minutes, he gave me the cut it off signal. I removed the intake and found I had 2 dead lifters but it looked like there was no damage to the cam. I disassembled both lifters (Eaton) and neither had springs in them! So, I then disassembled the lifter with the first failed cam (Johnson) and found that the ball check seat was pressed in crooked and there was no way the lifter could pump up. Fortunately, replacing the 2 lifters in cam 2 solved my problems and 6000 miles later, the engine is still quiet. So, I would take a look at that lifter, Charlie. You may be surprised at what you find......or don't find.Yes, very happy with the change....
On another note, today was an epic fail, wiped out a lobe and lifter on the new Comp Cams Thumper cam
Did all the usual lubing of the lobes and bearings, lifters, pushrods, rockers, etc., - even purged the lifters before putting them in and used hi zinc oil, to no avail...
Ten minutes in on the 2000 rpm break in one rocker started clacking for a minute then stopped - figured maybe some dirt plugged the lifter ?? Then at about 15 minutes it started hammering again. Finished the break in time and it's still doing it. Being a moron, I took it around the block, hoping it would magically go away. Nope. Drained the oil and found the telltale silver pearly color...
Guess what - it's out of stock from Comp and others like Summit. I'm actually considering putting the old cam and lifters in from the 360...
Or looking for an alternative - more $$$$
gene49
Well-known member
I have heard that the problem is the lifters as well. It sounds like a dissemble of the new lifters before installation is now a requirement. Sucks, but such is the world we currently live in. If the disassembly and inspections of the lifters saves the cams, it would certainly be worth the added effort, and would go a long way towards feeling better about doing a cam swap.
Going to roller cams is not practical on a lot of older motors.
Going to roller cams is not practical on a lot of older motors.
lowbudget50
Creators of all things awesome
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2012
- Messages
- 5,829
Look at the new 7.3 Godzilla roller lifter failure. They don't seem much better
zzrodder
It ain't grey hair, it's chrome!
Sorry Bob, I don't know where to find one here.
Oh yeah, used to do that all the time, used cam, mix up the lifters, so on, no break in run - no problems...
That makes sense, also watched a couple other vids.
Here's what I think I've learned:
I used Lucas 10-30 oil, now realize it did not have the ZZDP additive.
I didn't take out the secondary damper springs from the valve springs.
(seemed like a pain in the butt, now having second thoughts)
Damage on the cam lobe wasn't massive (still trashed though) but the lifter was totally screwed, ate right through the bottom.
Seems like the modern detergent oils are the big problem, along with some shoddy machining practices, going to check all the lifters for crown before assembly next time...
05snopro440
Well-known member
The one thing some guys miss on the break-in is spring pressure. If you have dual springs I think most manufacturers say that you have to remove the inner spring for cam break-in.
Same as LB, the comp in my 455 Buick never had a proper break-in. 36,000+ km's later, it still looks perfect. But I bought that cam in 2011 or 2012, things have changed.
Comp has lifters with a new DLC (diamond-like carbon) coating on them. I've done a lot of testing on DLC coatings in a previous work life and the reduction in friction makes it a good option for this particular application, as long as they have the adhesion of the coating figured out in this application.
Same as LB, the comp in my 455 Buick never had a proper break-in. 36,000+ km's later, it still looks perfect. But I bought that cam in 2011 or 2012, things have changed.
Comp has lifters with a new DLC (diamond-like carbon) coating on them. I've done a lot of testing on DLC coatings in a previous work life and the reduction in friction makes it a good option for this particular application, as long as they have the adhesion of the coating figured out in this application.
zzrodder
It ain't grey hair, it's chrome!
Wouldn't you know it, they don't make the DLC coated ones for the Ford FE engines...
05snopro440
Well-known member
zzrodder
It ain't grey hair, it's chrome!
No, they are the Comp springs that came with the cam, I'll remove the inner dampers for the next attempt - a real PITA but if it works out, it'll be worth it.
