? Anybody using a cross steer rack

After my trip this weekend to, Run to the sun I have concluded my steering needs improvement, it steers great but it likes to wonder from line to line, I'm always sawing on the steering wheel to keep it straight, I am thinking of moving the axle back to under the spring, shortening the radius rods and either adding a full rack (like a mustang or pinto style) or a cross steer rack, pro's and con's ?? Old school looks are cool, but now I want to make it comfy to drive.
I don't mind cutting and redesigning my steering, let it sit for a while so I can make it better, but I don't want to, go to all the extra work, just too find out it did not help
Chime in and let me know what you have, and would you change what you have, it to make it better

lowandraty,
Before you go to all the work and down time, maybe a steering shock, a refined wheel alignment ,tire pressure adjustment and serious check for worn parts would fix it all. Rack and pinion steering on a straight axle is not really an option unless it it is mounted to the straight axle. then you have the problem of steering shaft being flexible to allow travel. If the rack is mounted on the chassis you will end up with big time bump steer. Just my opinion but I sure others will back this up..................ruggs

The only old part in the steering is a samiri steering box I used, everything else is new and very tight, I set the alignment toe at 5 deg. just like any old rear wheel drive cars, camber and caster are great, I even adjusted the play out of the box. I can't get my pictures to load again.

LOWANDRATY said:

The only old part in the steering is a samiri steering box I used, everything else is new and very tight, I set the alignment toe at 5 deg. just like any old rear wheel drive cars, camber and caster are great, I even adjusted the play out of the box. I can't get my pictures to load again.

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Toe should be set at 1/16 to maybe 1/8 in, plus or minus depending on the car. Caster at 7 to 10, again it depends on the car. Buy a steering dampner and see what happens they really do help...........ruggs

Sounds like it needs more toe out.......

If you have waited to long to adjust the slack in the steering gear, sometimes it makes them worse to adjust. They get a high spot right in the center and you have to constantly saw as you said to keep it in the road. Are you sure that your toe end is not at .5 insted of 5? Is it negative or positve? It should be chewing rubber off if its a 5 degrees either positive or negative.

I would try slightly going out with the toe a little at a time to see if it helps!

bias or radials ???.. if bias swap to radial ?? swap tires with a friend, check out the way it handels ??

New radials, and you are right .05 deg. when the machine converts 1/8" = .13 so 1/16" = .065 I set mine at -.05 just a little in, we always set older rear wheel drive cars at -.10 because they will force themselfs out to a pos. when driving down the road. I think I'm going to get 2 stablizers and put 1 from the axle to the front bar and 1 from the drag link to the frame.

a few more pictures

See my steering arm has a hole in it, I can drill out and bolt a stablizer there to the frame, and I guess 1 out on the front tie rod, to the axel

lowandraty,
Look up ackerman....that looks to be a problem....ruggs

Dumb comment time... but doesn't the tie rod in front of the axle create some undesired handling characteristics in the handling of a vehicle? I was under the impression (in a perfect world) that the tie rod ends should be inline with an imaginary line taken from the centre of the king pin to the centre of the rear axle... just commenting out of curiosity more then anything.

pistolpete said:

Dumb comment time... but doesn't the tie rod in front of the axle create some undesired handling characteristics in the handling of a vehicle? I was under the impression (in a perfect world) that the tie rod ends should be inline with an imaginary line taken from the centre of the king pin to the centre of the rear axle... just commenting out of curiosity more then anything.

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Ackerman principal....you got it right......ruggs

Ackerman does not mean much going straight down the hi-way. In a parking lot yes. My 2003 Jeep Rubicon came from the factory just like that. Works fine, but will squeal the tires in a parking lot going slow in a tight circle.

Your description sounds like an alignment problem, i.e. toe in. I would suspect toe in is not enough. Its the easiest to adjust and I would be playing around there before I started putting a stabilizer on it. The amount of toe in is also dependant on tire diameter and width. Bigger tires = more toe required.

Play around with your angles until you get all the improvement you can, then if needed, add a stabilizer.

The other thing you could check is movement in the shackles when steering. Like if the axle is swinging on the shackles like a pendulum. Centre the steering and have some one saw the wheel back and forth at different speeds while you feel out the shackles. If they swing a little to the sides with steering... you might have a issue there.

gold03

If you look at the front end you will see bolt on steering arms, they are made just for the tie rod on front setup and it corrects the ackerman, that way when the left or right tire turns lets say 15 deg. the other one is the same. I really had a parking problem until I cut the original arms off and added those.
so every one seems to think I have too much toe in and need to get closer to 0 or go to the positive side a little.
I will give it a tweek tomorrow and go towards 0 and give it a try, then may be tweek it a few more times, stop and adjust it, and drive it some more, if I get it feeling good I will stick it on the alignment rack and post results of where it ended up.

pistolpete said:

Dumb comment time... but doesn't the tie rod in front of the axle create some undesired handling characteristics in the handling of a vehicle? I was under the impression (in a perfect world) that the tie rod ends should be inline with an imaginary line taken from the centre of the king pin to the centre of the rear axle... just commenting out of curiosity more then anything.

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There's a lot of vehicles out there that came with front steer solid axles (Chevy 4x4's for example) so that should not be a problem.
As stated by others, incorrect toe-in adjustment or excessive play somewhere can cause problems, and adding steering dampers is only a band-aid that won't cure it, just add clutter.

Going back to the original rack and pinion idea - tell me if this is a crazy idea - I've never seen it done but could a rack be mounted lengthwise on the frame? A double joint to connect to the column, just connect one end to the drag link running forward to the steering arm..... just something that I've been pondering, probably not viable for your rod.

zzrodder said:

b
Going back to the original rack and pinion idea - tell me if this is a crazy idea - I've never seen it done but could a rack be mounted lengthwise on the frame? A double joint to connect to the column, just connect one end to the drag link running forward to the steering arm..... just something that I've been pondering, probably not viable for your rod.

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I have seen some that have just removed one tie rod and use the other side as a pitman. It will work but I don't think you will gain any advantage. Plus, your rig looks as good as any I've seen, I can't picture what that would look like on it.

zzrodder said:

There's a lot of vehicles out there that came with front steer solid axles (Chevy 4x4's for example) so that should not be a problem.

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But those vehicles are running a cross steer set up with the steering box more or less mounted infront or above the front axle with the drag link basically moving side to side, as opposed to the push pull motion of the steering box mounted well behind the axle such as this (forget the name of the style right now and google isnt my friend today). I thought due to the steering box location and drag link movement it made a difference between the two systems. Sorry for the highjack...

gold03 said:

The other thing you could check is movement in the shackles when steering. Like if the axle is swinging on the shackles like a pendulum. Centre the steering and have some one saw the wheel back and forth at different speeds while you feel out the shackles. If they swing a little to the sides with steering... you might have a issue there.gold03

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That crossed my mind as well. Maybe you need a panhard bar. [S

Any updates LnR??