My 1941 Dodge Truck Build

Stupid me! Stupid me! LOL

I realized this morning that the rearend was not centered on the frame. The actual pinion offset (according to the internet) is 2.1875", which yields about a 3.2º angle. I feel much better about this.

deerchooper said:

looks good motorhead.

i was wondering being i never held one of them rubber motor mounts. do you think it would be a good body mount? i dont know the price differance from a poly but it was a thought. i just noticed yesterday after i put my masking tape drive shaft on that it had an offset, not as much as your though.

i really dont know the answer to your drive shaft. i hope it comes together for you. i thought i seen some one with a 6* drop in a universal before.

Click to expand...

Thanks!

I don't know how they would work as body mounts. Theyre pretty big, probably 3" or so in diameter. I would just get a body mount kit from Auto Zone. It would probably come out cheaper in the end, as the Speedway mounts are $20 a pair.

For my body mounts, I ordered a 36" length of polyurethane tube from McMaster. It's 60A hardness and I'll cut pieces up to use as body mounts. It's 1/2" inside diameter with 3/8" wall thickness.

DJ3100 said:

Are the pinion shaft and the output shaft parallel now? I think angling the tranny to take it out of parallel would not be the ideal solution. 6.5 degrees is more than the info I have recommends, but way less than the lifted trucks use. Hopefully someone who actually knows will come up with the correct answer.

Motor mounts look great.

Cooler today - get lots done!

Click to expand...

Thanks! It sure feels cooler today, a lot cooler! I'll get some more done, hopefully!

The pinion and output shaft are no parallel. Like I said earlier, the angle will be about 3º, so that makes life a lot easier. I think the U-joints can handle that, no?

bob w said:

The angle on the engine/trans and the angle on the pinion should be equal and opposite. An example: If the engine is angled down toward the rear at 3 degrees, then the pinion should be angled up 3 degrees. Because of elevation differences between the end of the tailshaft and the pinion, a maximum of 5 degrees in u-joint angle is ok.
Many people get by with more u-joint angle than that, however.

Click to expand...

The pinion and output shaft are parallel in both planes:

Plane 1: the plane that runs the length of the car and is parallel to the ground.

Plane 2: the plane that runs the length of the car and is perpendicular to the ground.

Everything in plane 2 is perfect. I was worried about the driveshaft angle in plane 1. By mistake, I calculated it to be about 6.5º, but like I said earlier, it'll be more like 3º. I feel much better about that.

Thanks everyone!

My reference for setting up the driveshaft is HP Books Chassis & Suspension Handbook by the Editors of Street Rodders Magazine. Page 162 "...the transmission output shaft must be parallel with the pinion shaft. ...They should not share a common centerline. The goal is to produce an angle through the driveshaft universal joints of 3 degrees ...it is possible to run anywhere from 0 to 5 degrees, but 3 or less will generally run the smoothest."

So, if you're parallel and 3 degrees you can quit worrying about it.
Like you already said the angle counts in both planes - parallel to the frame and perpendicular to the frame.

If you're not parallel you have to square the engine with frame. Or change the pinion angle. Depending on the plane that is out of parallel.

I think you already had this figured out.

Thanks! Yes, I think I figured it out.

Quick question, what is the ISBN # of that book? I looked up the title and all I found were 4WD books.

--------

I worked on the truck yesterday for a few hours. I think I got a little dehydrated and took today off. Anyways, I managed to put in the front cross member. I still have to buy some 1" flat stock and "box" it, but I like the way it looks. The engine is in, but I still have to do the tranny crossmember.



I also welded two pieces of square tubing across the frame and radius rods, locking the front suspension. It's a lot easier to move it around this way.


Man, the Speedway mounts I got are pieces of crap! Take a look at what happend to the bolt that holds all of this in place. It looks cross threaded, no? Well, it is not! I set the bolt and a 3/8" drive ratchet on my welder (about 25" off the ground) and accidentially knocked both of them over when I went to put my cordless impact on top of the welder (when the garage is cluttered, welders serve as great tool benches, lol). The bolt fell 25" to the ground and the ratchet probably landed on top of it. This is what happend to the bolt.


The bolt is made out of cheese. I can break the threads off with my finger nails! I'm actually glad this happend, otherwise my engine might have ended up in the middle of the freeway. The bolt has a 5/8" shoulder with 7/16" threads. I can't figure out why this mount couldn't be designed to use a normal 5/8" bolt and not a shoulder bolt. All in all, it's a pretty bad product. If you can stay away from them, do so by all means! I'm going to use them since I already have them, but I will be upgrading the crappy bolts to some grade 8 hardware.

Thanks for looking!

The ISBN is: 1-55788-346-7 It's worth getting if you can find it. It's a little old (2000), but has good street rod info.

I think McFadden-Dale Hardware on 32 st. S of Broadway has 5/8" shoulder bolts - actually stripper bolts (I know they have 1/2" not sure about 5/8). They're grade 8 quality with precision shoulder diameter.

The front cross member looks great.

Looks awesome man! [cl[cl

All the things you’re going through will help keep me aware during mine.

I didn’t think they made any shoulder bolts that cheap!

The stripper bolts (shoulder bolts) we use certainly wouldn’t do that. I would have thought Speedway would have better products than that. [S

DJ3100 said:

The ISBN is: 1-55788-346-7 It's worth getting if you can find it. It's a little old (2000), but has good street rod info.

I think McFadden-Dale Hardware on 32 st. S of Broadway has 5/8" shoulder bolts - actually stripper bolts (I know they have 1/2" not sure about 5/8). They're grade 8 quality with precision shoulder diameter.

The front cross member looks great.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the ISBN! I can't find a hard copy anywhere. It was on Google Books, but all the images were blocked. I'll be on the look out for the book.

McFadden-Dale won't have when I need. This bolt isn't a standard size. A shoulder bolt with a 5/8" shoulder will have a 1/2" thread; this one is 7/16". I think I will turn a 7/16" ID, 5/8" OD spaced on the lathe and use a grade 8 - 7/16" bolt with it.

SugarRay8 said:

Looks awesome man!

All the things you’re going through will help keep me aware during mine.

I didn’t think they made any shoulder bolts that cheap!

The stripper bolts (shoulder bolts) we use certainly wouldn’t do that. I would have thought Speedway would have better products than that.

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot!

One thing to be aware of.... STAY CLEAR OF THESE SPEEDWAY MOTOR MOUNTS!!!!!! LOL, seriously!

------------------------------------

A little update:

I've been working on the steering. I had some steering arms water jetted which required me to modify the brake caliper brackets. Over the past couple of days, I managed to get everything done. I spent a few hours tonight and got everything welded. All I need to do now is to paint the brackets. Also, nothing warped or moved, which is always great!

I took the brake caliper off to mark where the centerline of the kingpin was.


Marked the centerline of the kingpin:


I marked how much material I had to remove. I tried to cut it with my pile of crap Harbor Freight bandsaw, but that dreadful piece of junk is only good for cutting warm butter. Even then, all the cuts would come out crooked. I ended up drilling a series of holes and cleaning the rest with a grinder.


You can see how these two parts will mate.


Mocked up the driver side:


Passenger side:


Here is both of them fully welded. All I need is a tie rod and the front wheels will be locked together!


Every seam (4 seams per bracket) was welded in two TIG passes. The brackets are extremely strong and I'm very happy with them. The first passes were the regular root pass, but I tried "walking the cup" on the 2nd passes. I've been practicing it and I think I'm getting better and more consistant at it.

Sample of first pass:


Sample of second pass. I still need to work on the feeding technique. I think I get too stressed out and pull my filler out too much. The crap that's on the weld is probably contamination from my hot filler leaving the gas shield. I don't know. My camera wouldn't focus very well on the welds. They look a little better in person.


Thanks for looking!

that is very nice.

i havent tig welded but i would say ya got it.

i really like the way your raduis rods (dont know what to call them) turned out.

Motorhead ya Tig welds look superb , just finish em with a wire wheel [cl

When I do tig at work (steam pipe's ect..),I ALWAYS clean my filler wire just before i start to weld,bare wire i clean with a 3M pad,copper cote wire i do with some wet n dry paper till there's no more coating on it ,the cleaner the better and the end weld will be cleaner as a result.

Have to do it so they pass the X-ray tests,seen a lot of welds over the last 30 years and your [ skills are up there with the best i've seen.

Keep up the great work mate,you inspire me with your creativity in metal [P

Looking forward to the next installment

this think is really looking good....love the attention to detail and originality of the components....[

to say the least i just don't have the kind of patience or talent to do what your'e doing....


[cl[cl

Everything's looking great. I'd be very happy if my TIG welds looked half as good as those.

deerchooper said:

that is very nice.

i havent tig welded but i would say ya got it.

i really like the way your raduis rods (dont know what to call them) turned out.

Click to expand...

Thank you!

I'm pretty happy with the way the radius rods turned out.

hooligan said:

Motorhead ya Tig welds look superb , just finish em with a wire wheel [cl

When I do tig at work (steam pipe's ect..),I ALWAYS clean my filler wire just before i start to weld,bare wire i clean with a 3M pad,copper cote wire i do with some wet n dry paper till there's no more coating on it ,the cleaner the better and the end weld will be cleaner as a result.

Have to do it so they pass the X-ray tests,seen a lot of welds over the last 30 years and your [ skills are up there with the best i've seen.

Keep up the great work mate,you inspire me with your creativity in metal [P

Looking forward to the next installment

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot bud! Thanks for taking the time to review my welds; I really appreciate it. I am self-taught for the most part and don't have anybody who knows what they're doing to tell me if I'm doing it right or wrong. I appreciate your feedback!

I had heard something about MIG wires having a coating on them to help them push through the gun easier, but I didn't know TIG fillers were coated. It kind of makes sense, though. It is to keep the contamination out, no?

I'm also looking forward to the next installments, especially the last one. I can't wait to drive this thing!

hotrod preacher said:

this think is really looking good....love the attention to detail and originality of the components....[

to say the least i just don't have the kind of patience or talent to do what your'e doing....

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot man! I appreciate the kind words.

DJ3100 said:

Everything's looking great. I'd be very happy if my TIG welds looked half as good as those.

Click to expand...

Thanks Dan! I would be happy if my sheemetal work or machining came out a tenth as good as yours. LOL

I have reached the limit of images for one post. The update will be in the following post.

A little update:

I haven't really done anything significant as it's hot enough outside to melt steel. It stays above 100ºF until 8:30-9 in the evening, at which time it is too late to work on cars.

I started on the transmission crossmember. I want to make a removeable crossmember, I picked up these steel flanges from the metal supplier for $0.80/each.


The plan is to weld two short pieces of tubing to the "outter" flanges and a long piece of tubing to the "inner" flanges, so I can bolt and unbolt the cross member once it is welded to the frame.


I will finish welding these tomorrow. I'm still waiting for my transmission mount to arrive, but it should be here tomorrow.


I also CLEANED my work space!! What an absolute mess it was! I can actually see the surface of the bench now.


Oh yeah, and I got these thing for my air ride suspension. It's a completely mechanical system to control the front and rear axles. It's pretty neat, and it was only $75.


Thanks for looking!

progress

any progress is good, even it's if just gatherin' parts.
guess l won't complaian about the 80 degees it gonna be here today[ddev

LATER

The trick is to get up at 00 dark thirty, minus 2 and work until it hits 100 (8:00 am or so) or until you have to go to work. I've been starting at 5:00. It's still hot, but tolerable. Evenings are tough because the shop and everything in it, especially the iron, has spent the day absorbing heat. In the evening 100 feels a lot hotter than in the morning - at least to me.

But then, we get to work all winter!

By the way, that clean work bench brings back memories. I haven't seen one of those since I started my project - OK, actually long before that.

on your steering arms, did you factor in the ackerman principle? it kinda looks like that was factored in but could tell for sure. just dont want to see you do all that work and run into issues later

cornfield customs said:

on your steering arms, did you factor in the ackerman principle? it kinda looks like that was factored in but could tell for sure. just dont want to see you do all that work and run into issues later

Click to expand...

Different project but, I haven’t started on my steering arms yet and don’t want to run into issues either.
What the heck is the “ackerman principle”? [S

ackerman basically: is the fact that when turning the inside wheel and the outside wheel dont make the same arc. The inside wheel has a smaller turning radius and the outside larger...

I still need to sort mine out, if you dont have it right the car will skip or plow around corners.. not good

just google ackerman angle you will get all sorts of results and some nice diagrams that show what i am poorly explaining...

If done right, the center of the crossing lines created by the wheels will meet at the center of your rear axle..

when you switch to front steer you cant really get it perfect, but you can get it close. every little bit helps

CORPO said:

ackerman basically: is the fact that when turning the inside wheel and the outside wheel dont make the same arc. The inside wheel has a smaller turning radius and the outside larger...

I still need to sort mine out, if you dont have it right the car will skip or plow around corners.. not good

just google ackerman angle you will get all sorts of results and some nice diagrams that show what i am poorly explaining...

If done right, the center of the crossing lines created by the wheels will meet at the center of your rear axle..

Click to expand...

Wow, never even gave it a thought, but that certainly makes sense. I guess I have some research to do.
Thanks for the post.

cornfield customs said:

when you switch to front steer you cant really get it perfect, but you can get it close. every little bit helps

Click to expand...

I’m hoping to stay with rear steer, but good to know. Thanks!


Motorhead – Sorry for high-jacking your thread!

Just had to know what they were talking about.

skull said:

any progress is good, even it's if just gatherin' parts.
guess l won't complaian about the 80 degees it gonna be here today[ddev

LATER

Click to expand...

80 ºF? Man, I'm so jealous!

DJ3100 said:

The trick is to get up at 00 dark thirty, minus 2 and work until it hits 100 (8:00 am or so) or until you have to go to work. I've been starting at 5:00. It's still hot, but tolerable. Evenings are tough because the shop and everything in it, especially the iron, has spent the day absorbing heat. In the evening 100 feels a lot hotter than in the morning - at least to me.

But then, we get to work all winter!

By the way, that clean work bench brings back memories. I haven't seen one of those since I started my project - OK, actually long before that.

Click to expand...

A clean work bench is so awesome, but I hate cleaning up. I don't know how big your space is, but mine is 18'x18'. The moment it gets a little messy, I start tripping over stuff, smashing my toes or cutting myself. LOL

cornfield customs said:

on your steering arms, did you factor in the ackerman principle? it kinda looks like that was factored in but could tell for sure. just dont want to see you do all that work and run into issues later

Click to expand...

Yes, although I purposely designed it to not have the perfect Ackerman geometry.

CORPO said:

If done right, the center of the crossing lines created by the wheels will meet at the center of your rear axle.

Click to expand...

Absolutely NOT TRUE! This will work well for really low speed turning, like horse wagons, for which Ackerman geometry was originally developed. Modern cars don't run a perfect Ackerman geometry and this is because dynamics effects, such as tire slip angle through turns, are not accounted for in the Ackerman geometry. The slip angle is a really important thing that a lot of people leave out of the equation when designing a steering system. A lot of high speed race cars (such as F1 cars) run reverse Ackerman because of slip angle.

I don't want this to sound harsh or rude. If it does, I apologize.

SugarRay8 said:

Motorhead – Sorry for high-jacking your thread!

Just had to know what they were talking about.

Click to expand...

No worries!