We need to talk

http://www.industrialchassisinc.com/?p=906

This build was posted over on another site. A fabricator has documented problems with a car that came to his shop for repair. The car was sold as a rat rod. Read the article.

This scares the s@@t out of me! This car could have killed on its maiden voyage. I don't like bashing another guys project. But, really! I've seen some things that are sketchy at best, downright dangerous at worst, and kept my mouth shut. I think that's a bad policy.

We need to talk about this. Politely, intelligently, considering the impact this is having on our hobby. If we see something that has the potential to be unsafe, we need to point it out to the builder and suggest a better way.

I'm going to the garage, and I'm going to have another look at what I've been doing.

Holy crap!!!
So I, for one, am not an experienced car builder by any stretch of the imagination. With that said, I opted to utilize a full frame, with factory steering linkage. I decided to air bag and zee my frame, both of which has been done MANY times in the past by thousands of other people. (68 Chevy c10 chassis).
I went this route for two reasons:
1) because I don't have the vast knowledge needed to completely redesign proper steering geometry and suspension components.
2) To aid in parts replacement for vital components as easy as possible...... By me, and possibly any future buyer.

All parts I have and will use are are available over the counter at any parts store, or in the worse case, the aftermarket.

I KNOW my abilities. I KNOW what I can and can not do. I don't understand how people can be so selfish and close minded to create something like this, and be able to sleep at night after selling it?!!?
I would spend the rest of my life wondering if my "creation" killed someone today
This puts a bad name on Rat Rods and their purpose, and frankly, its gotten out of hand.
People..... Any people, think they can just pick up a welder, dig through the scrap tool box and slap together something.
While this might be true, there is TONS of engineering that goes into the design, form and FUNCTION of ANY vehicle. Even that POS Astro Van over there.

99.9% of propel could not start a new automobile make today (like Chevy, ford, dodge ect) because the engineering involved are way above the general public.

On my frame, I did cut and zee it. It will be re welded by a certified welder soon, because I'm not comfortable with my welds today. They will also be double fish plated inside and out. Other then that, the frame is factory, period.

My two cents.....

W0W

before they fixed the frame it was a handgranade waiting to go off

we are so safety couscous here, we try to steer the people to build safe and reliable rods.

that car was just flat out scary.

how can people justify that kind of "workmanship"[S


l feel sorry for the guy who paid for that car, he got robbed big time.

glad you brought this up, shows how some shops/builders just care about the money and not the customer or anyone's safety.

Later

Ratrods are not the only cars that are put together like that. I've saw some scary stuff on trailer Queens also. I hauled a car awhile back that was a "traditional" hot rod. The whole chassis needed to go to the scrap yard. I won't go into details about it cause the owner is a member here.

And IMO the front frame that they built looks like crap. It's way to busy and over done.

21willys said:

Ratrods are not the only cars that are put together like that. I've saw some scary stuff on trailer Queens also. I hauled a car awhile back that was a "traditional" hot rod. The whole chassis needed to go to the scrap yard. I won't go into details about it cause the owner is a member here.

And IMO the front frame that they built looks like crap. It's way to busy and over done.

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Your right. Motorcycles, traditionals, street rods. They all have the same problem. The issue becomes that RatRods are expected to appear hacked together like this. The general public already see's rat rods as hacked together cars, because that's the picture that is meant to be painted. But this means they will get scrutinized quicker.
All it's going to ate is two or three of these piles of garbage to kill a few people to make them illegal everywhere.

Anybody that would buy something that bad,should just forget about ratrods and go buy a new car.

I understand that not all people can do all the work on a project them self but you should at least know enough to see shoddy workmanship and poor quality materials. if in doubt have someone you trust look it over for you before accepting it.

That is a perfect example of trying to do something you don't know how to do just by looking at pictures for guidance. Just because something looks like it will work, doesn't mean that it will. There is a lot of engineering in a suspension system, and you better know what you are doing or you will end up with a mess like that trying to be different than everybody else. If you don't know for sure what you're doing, it's much better to ask somebody that does. There is probably a reason nobody ever built some of those crazy designs, it's because they don't work in the real world. I'm no expert, and would never tell anybody how to do something unless I knew it would work. That's why I don't comment much on suspension issues, I don't have the knowledge that others do, and I let them express it.

As far as the welding goes, my welding sometimes isn't pretty, but it's strong. I have never welded up a bunch of nickels though, WTF? Had to be a better way to fill a gap than that. And I've never been a fan of using pipe wrenches and such in critical components places, maybe as a light stand or something like that, but never in suspension or steering items. Too "cutesy" and dangerous, I've bent pipe wrench handles with cheater pipes before, sure you want one holding your front axle on? Not me!


I agree with gold03, if we see something hokey, we need to bring it to light. It might not matter to the builder, but then again, they might rethink things when explained why something is a bad idea. A little constructive criticism might hurt your feelings, but might also save your life!

Wow... sounds like someone bought something with little to no skills at evaluating fabrication work, or even basic knowledge of how things function mechanically...

I think they would have been better off just scrapping that whole car right from the start, there is no way I would have even taken that car in to fix it in the first place...

I'm just glad no one got hurt with that POS...

Dirtyrat said:

Wow... sounds like someone bought something with little to no skills at evaluating fabrication work, or even basic knowledge of how things function mechanically...

I think they would have been better off just scrapping that whole car right from the start, there is no way I would have even taken that car in to fix it in the first place...

I'm just glad no one got hurt with that POS...

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To be fair some folks just don't have a mechanical mind. I have a buddy like that. He loves rat rods and bikes, but he has no idea what a spark plug is.
Maybe the guy is like this and THOUGHT he was getting a sweet ride.
At least he made the right decision after driving it to take it to someone who knows what they are looking at to make the needed changes.

jmlcolorado said:

To be fair some folks just don't have a mechanical mind. I have a buddy like that. He loves rat rods and bikes, but he has no idea what a spark plug is.
Maybe the guy is like this and THOUGHT he was getting a sweet ride.
At least he made the right decision after driving it to take it to someone who knows what they are looking at to make the needed changes.

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Better off bringing a mechanic or qualified person for inspection before wasting big money on a pile of scrap...

Dirtyrat said:

Better off bringing a mechanic or qualified person for inspection before wasting big money on a pile of scrap...

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I absolutely agree.

I think it's been discussed before.....you can't just throw parts at something and then call it a RR....the people here know their stuff...they don't accept shoddy work....guys like the one that built this is slapping all the conscientious builders in the face.....just because it's not shiny, have billet or even paint at all doesn't mean it can't be safe and drive right.....shame that this kind of stuff happens but I'd bet it happens in the "traditional" hot rod , world too....unscrupulous builders who don't know what they are doing pocketing money from someone who they thought they could trust but found they couldn't....not limited to building RR's....got those kind in all trades....JMHO....

Owning a welder doesn't make you a welder... but you can stick two things together.

It's a common virus. When choppers were all over TV, everybody and their dog suddenly became a bike builder. "I can do that". Sure, it looks easy. So does picking, flipping cars and storage auctions.

As others have mentioned, bad work comes in all shapes, styles and sizes regardless of category. We can't worry about everybody else, but we can be responsible for our own actions and transactions.

Build 'em safe and "caveat emptor".

.

What really bothers me about this, is the car was likely built with others looking on. I can't help thinking I've seen the car before. I think it's because of the connecting rods used in the front end.

Who the hell uses nickels for floor boards?! Hasn't this guy heard of carbon monoxide? Did you see the gaps in that ****!

I thought rat rods are hot rods that didn't get painted like an Easter decoration! Cars that are a little rough around the edges but built to drive. Not trailer queens. Owned by people who are not afraid to drive them in the rain and park at the mall.

I just erased half of this post. I'm ranting. My Daddy would say, "you are preaching to the choir."

Lets have each others back. Lets do the equivalent of a peer review of builds, modifications, etc. The things we build can be critical on the hi way at 70mph. So, lets be critical of our work, and that of others on this site.

Not nasty! But supportive. Mentors. That's what makes you guys great. Your lack of malice, and your willingness to teach.

gold03 said:

Lets have each others back. Lets do the equivalent of a peer review of builds, modifications, etc. The things we build can be critical on the hi way at 70mph. So, lets be critical of our work, and that of others on this site.

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We always have. There have been many people come on here to show off their novel idea only to be told it's a bad idea and dangerous. They usually don't like the facts and quit posting. I always hope they never finish their build. Sometimes a guy will see the light, accept the concerned criticism, and make the needed changes.

When I started posting on RRR, there were still a lot of goofy, stupid, and unsafe cars being called rat rods - it's kinda where the term took hold and why the HAMB hates them so much. Rebar being used as steering linkage - that kinda stuff. For the most part, that stuff has disappeared.

Honestly, I think the builder of that car was just trying to slap something together to sell to some fool wanting to buy in to the rat rod scene. Old rusty body, eyecatching trick mechanics using odd parts, add a sucker with cash - - mission accomplished.

A while back I took a long hard look at my chevy
And I knew all along that I needed to finish the car to make it safe.
That is exactly what I have been doing.
If I had bought it after being told it was good to go and road ready
It would have been a crooked deal.
But it was made absolutely clear from the get go
That it was up to me to finish it.

All good points but I kinda think the buyer has some responsibility to know what he's getting. If he isn't knowledgeable, he should have taken someone along who was, even if he had to hire them.
I think half the people on these forums are in over their head a lot on any build that's beyond the scope of over the counter bolt ons. Truely, how many of us are engineers? Not defending that mess in any way though, just sayin...

I saw this on the other forum

I realize that there are many levels of rat rod and I lean toward the unfinished traditional. Mine is a 46 Dodge bobber pick up which is not traditional but there are no non automotive parts on it.

That thing is atrocious and that guy paid a lot I bet. Looks like the shop fixing it does good work.

I agree with the safety problems getting us outlawed, they did it with lifted 4X4s in many states. Tell them they are gonna die if they don't fix it. It may **** them off but might just save a bus load of kids.

Don

Sam_Fear said:

Honestly, I think the builder of that car was just trying to slap something together to sell to some fool wanting to buy in to the rat rod scene. Old rusty body, eyecatching trick mechanics using odd parts, add a sucker with cash - - mission accomplished.

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Yeah looked to me like the goal of that build was to have something to back off the trailer at whatever rat rod show, slam on the ground and sit beside it trying to look cool.

Whatever idiot bought that with the intention of driving it on the road is...well, an idiot. But shame on the builder for representing it as road-worthy.