Ethanol

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Is it good news or bad? Hopefully it will lower food prices a bit due to corn not being sold and consumed for fuel, but do we need more ethanol to help offset the supposedly dwindling oil supply? What are everyone's thoughts on this? [S
 
I wish I could go to a pump where it wasn't a blend. Back when I was driving my old 68 beetle with straight gasoline, I was able to get 35mpg on average. When I hit a 10%ethanol pump it dropped down to 25mpg. To most that's not much but when you only make 10bucks an hour that's a huge difference. That's the difference between being able to drive on one tank for 1 or 2 weeks. Now that I have a fuel sucking truck, I see more of an advantage to running 100% gasoline over the ethanol blend. Even when I had my cummins, I saw a huge difference in MPGs when I ran biodiesel. Plus, older engines were never designed to run on anything but gasoline.
 
Is it good news or bad? Hopefully it will lower food prices a bit due to corn not being sold and consumed for fuel, but do we need more ethanol to help offset the supposedly dwindling oil supply? What are everyone's thoughts on this? [S

You don't have to be rocket surgeon to know, "ALCOHOL IS FOR DRINKING''. :D

We have no shortage of oil... or grains for that matter. No need to mix the two but we get the blended crap nonetheless.

We also produce plenty of natural gas. A by-product of natural gas processing and oil refining is... propane. Since the demand for propane is limited, refineries BURN OFF the excess. In my mind, LPG is the solution oil companies and auto manufacturers refuse to acknowledge...



.
 
Is it good news or bad? Hopefully it will lower food prices a bit due to corn not being sold and consumed for fuel, but do we need more ethanol to help offset the supposedly dwindling oil supply? What are everyone's thoughts on this? [S

I know everyone I've talked to about it and with all of my vehicles that the additional ethanol creates less mileage. Less mileage means more fuel consumption. If the idea of adding it is to make the supply last longer then that is kinda counter intuitive isn't it?

My 62 Nova won't run on the ethanol blend, everything else I have gets 4 to 8 mpg less then it does w/o the blend. Now if fuel prices had dropped significantly when they did it I might be ok with the less mileage but when the price goes up and the mileage goes down it's a double whammy to my wallet. As far as I'm concerned they can get the corn out of my fuel tanks...
 
My opinion:

No, we don't need ethanol to off set oil. Proven oil reserves have increased by 50% in the last ten years. Even with increased consumption, oil use will last another 100 years easily. Economics - as the cost of oil production goes up, other alternative energies will become more attractive until oil usage starts to shrink. If the market is allowed to set price, that shouldn't happen for many years.

The biggest problem in the discussion about energy is overcoming the notion that non-renewable fossil fuels are evil. Natural gas should become the first crossover fuel for transportation. It's cheap energy, current engine design is easily changed over to it, and there is already a distribution network. But it's a fossil fuel.

Ethanol is simply not profitable on it's own. The government props up ethanol production, if not by subsidies, than by laws requiring its use. All because a lobby of hand-wringing individuals have convinced the population that renewable fuel is a must or we shall all soon perish.

I don't buy it. I consider the whole problem (along with others) to be created by individuals that always need to have something to crusade against and worry about, to fill a void in their lives. Most likely the void where God should be.

Again, just my opinion.
 
I can't believe how ungrateful everyone is about the fuels, insurance and anything else the Government is controlling. :(
They selfishly, stay up days on end and loose countless hours of sleep trying to come up with new ways to make our lives better :rolleyes:
You know deep down inside your core that , all of this regulation is for our well being and in no way beneficial to the pocket books of the controllers :confused:
Yeah right !!!!!!!!!!!
One case in point. My Son in-law works his azz off welding second shift to provide for his family. He was paying $50 a week to have insurance to cover them all he now has to pay $125 a week for the same coverage [S
I know he's not the only one this has effected but, he's my family and they are all I care about :mad:
Don't get me wrong, I'm concerned about all the other Americans that is effected by this ridiculous law :mad:
I'm not going to say anymore.
Admin if you need to delete this post because it may be too political, I wont be offended :)
 
My opinion:

No, we don't need ethanol to off set oil. Proven oil reserves have increased by 50% in the last ten years. Even with increased consumption, oil use will last another 100 years easily. Economics - as the cost of oil production goes up, other alternative energies will become more attractive until oil usage starts to shrink. If the market is allowed to set price, that shouldn't happen for many years.

The biggest problem in the discussion about energy is overcoming the notion that non-renewable fossil fuels are evil. Natural gas should become the first crossover fuel for transportation. It's cheap energy, current engine design is easily changed over to it, and there is already a distribution network. But it's a fossil fuel.

Ethanol is simply not profitable on it's own. The government props up ethanol production, if not by subsidies, than by laws requiring its use. All because a lobby of hand-wringing individuals have convinced the population that renewable fuel is a must or we shall all soon perish.

I don't buy it. I consider the whole problem (along with others) to be created by individuals that always need to have something to crusade against and worry about, to fill a void in their lives. Most likely the void where God should be.

Again, just my opinion.

I agree with you Sam.

The Texas Permian Basin now has larger oil reserves than all of Saudi Arabia. New techniques for extracting oil has put new life in the Texas oil fields. Unemployment in Odessa is below 3%, and the price of gas is dropping.

It's funny how every time someone wrings their hands, says we're running out of oil, and "...we're all gonna die!!!...", new technology comes on line and proven reserves go thru the roof. Actually you could replace the word oil in that sentence with any word... and it will remain true.

Keep in mind, the current Texas oil boom, and the North Dakota oil boom, are all being done on private land. The feds have shut down drilling on all federal lands... to protect us... from ourselves...

Lets eat our corn. We make more money feeding the world than anything else.

Soapbox Off. I have spent a little time recently working on a project for an oilfield co, and I have been getting an education in oil economics.


Timothy
 
Personally, I think all the corn is good for is ethanol since all commercially grown corn is GMO and the FDA's (read Monsanto) hold over the industry has refused to allow GMO labeling in our country. High fructose corn syrup is not good for you, neither is the corn fattened beef.
 
If memory serves me correctly, I think Florida is trying to outlaw Ethanol altogether. I would definitely vote in favor of that.
 
I'm definitely in favor of LPG... no doubt about that... low tank pressures, liquefies at a very low pressure compared to Natural gas (Tank pressures around 3500PSI for NG vs about 200psi for LPG)

This means tanks that are less weight, and smaller... I wish someone at car companies would jump on board with an LPG car from the factory...
 
Forgive me but....

...it's ALL about the MONEY! On a level far above the hand-wringing is MONEY! I agree with all of you but the "puppetmasters" care about only one thing.

If ethanol was the only point, then why not use Sawgrass or Kudzu instead of corn....? No money in those.

JMO.

Lynn
 
It's a bipartisan coalition. The Ag lobby and the renewable energy lobby. The renewables lobby is mostly sheeple, but the Ag lobby is farm business. It made my Dad a millionaire twice over - he owns 160 acres now worth $15,500 an acre = $2,480,000. Well, it sounds good at least, but he does rent it at a fine profit.
 
The simple fact is, if the government would allow the free market to work the way it should, there would be zero ethanol in our gas.

I'm in the oil biz (or "awl" as they say down here) and know a fair amount about the stuff and difficulties of trying to blend it, transport it, store it, burn it.

Terrible stuff. Can't put it in a pipeline, must be shipped very expensively via truck or rail. Very short life because it sucks up water from the atmosphere and gunk from any tank it's put in. Expensive. Low energy content. When you take into account the massive amount of fertilizer & water needed to produce it, it all of a sudden looks very un-enviromentally friendly.

I have a certain respect for farmers and agree they need to be propped up in bad weather years, but they can be paid to produce FOOD for humans and animals rather than overly expensive fuel.

Natural gas is the way to go. We have an estimated 300 years worth of currently proved reserves with more being discovered every day.
 
LNG is a great idea in theory. Just like all other "clean energies." The primary issue with LNG is the infrastructure. It'd be a pita to revamp every car that's on the road to run of the stuff. Plus to install all of the pumps to supply the basic consumer. CA tried to implement LNG for quite a few years but the only ones who jumped on board with it were local governments and companies that ran fleet vehicles. But they installed the pumps for themselves and control the supply to their vehicles only. The one thing I noticed when driving the company vehicles that were LNG was the lack of horsepower and **** poor mileage. Those trucks we couldn't even hook a trailer onto. Just no power to get up and go.
 
I'm lucky to have two stores that still have pure gas. I use it in all my lawn equipment and my farm tractor. If I use the alky mix in the tractor, it will draw moisture while it's sitting between uses, and I have to partially drain the tank and carb to get it to run. Alky kills small engines, my chain saw is down due to using it when I couldn't get pure gas.

What I don't understand is pure gas costs more than the alky mix. Looks like it would be the other way around? [S
 
The nice part about Liquid Propane is that it can be easily injected as a liquid, and your fuel economy suffers very little. Power output is very close to stock numbers as well.

LPG is basically free to the refineries as well...
 
Doesn't make sense to me to burn millions of BTUs of propane to dry corn down to get the best price and then send it to a distillery and have it cooked, with water, into the mash with gas again. The station I bought my gas from just changed it's straight gas pumps to diesel, so I go a little farther down the street now. I won't use ethanol 'til I'm forced to.

Blue
 

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