Dissy timing on 4.3 v6 and SBC???

[jawman]

I got a 4.3 v6 that is basically the same thing as a 350 SBC motor. I am using an HEI dissy and I think for comparing the only thing different between the v6 and v8 HEI's are the cap and coil. any way I need to figure out how to time the dissy. cant wait to see if the motor runs.

 

[sgtpontiac]

Might want to look at the reluctor coil....

I got a 4.3 v6 that is basically the same thing as a 350 SBC motor. I am using an HEI dissy and I think for comparing the only thing different between the v6 and v8 HEI's are the cap and coil. any way I need to figure out how to time the dissy. cant wait to see if the motor runs.

I may be wrong but....V6 and V8 HEI dist's have different reluctor coils and pickups.... one has 6 for the six cyld's and one has 8.... won't interchange.... but, I think you can put the v6 reluctor and shaft into the V8 dist without a problem.....housings are the same.....

 

[jawman]

I bought a v6 HEI and I had a v8 HEI. both fit in the motor and mount up and everything and the caps interchange. So I believe the base is the same but you have 6 and 8 pole caps and the coil mounts different on the cap. I need to figure out the firing order too.

Also, I have 3 HEI bases. one is just vacume advance, one is vacume and it has an extra 4 wire plug on it, then the last one just has the 4wire plug and then of course all of them have the 3 wire plug going to the cap.
my question is: Is the 4 wire plug for an electronic advance? I have the one with the 4 wire plug and vacume advance, but do I need to hook up the 4 wire plug for it to operate right? the one I have with just the 4wire plug can I convert that to vacume advance?

 

[sgtpontiac]

Couldn't think of the proper terms....

The reluctor/ "Pole Piece" the stationary coil surrounding the shaft has 6 points on it vs 8 points on the v8 Hei not just the caps.... that is what triggers the modules to determine the number of signals to the coil... so you can't simply swap out a v6 for a v8 dist....

the 4 wire dist is non electric spark control and will have a vacuum advance, the 7 wire ESC type allegedly can be converted by jumping two of the wires but I don't know this for sure.... I'd have to look into that..... most ESC dist's are from pre 81 motors as in 81 they started to use electronic spark and computer control carbs..... to be sure I'm gonna do some more checking but I think I'm correct..... as my kids tell me, I'm not often right, but I'm never wrong!! LOL

 

[jawman]

I see what you are saying now. I am going to try to use the HEI with the 7 wire and vacume advance. I hope I dont need to hook up the extra wires just the vacume line and one power

 

[rainman]

I'm also pretty sure sgtpontiac is correct, you should have no problems hooking that up. But I'm not sure I understand you're question. Do you need to know what will hook up, or how to hook it up? Or just basicly how to istall a distributor?

 

[sgtpontiac]

iF you use the 7 wire

I see what you are saying now. I am going to try to use the HEI with the 7 wire and vacume advance. I hope I dont need to hook up the extra wires just the vacume line and one power

I'm afraid that if you use the 7 wire and bypass the other two, you won't get any advance other than base timing and vacuum advance..... I think the module is set up to get ESC timing from the ESC unit... does that dist have advance weights under the rotor??

 

[jawman]

I will have to check to see if it has weights on it. If I am getting the vacume advance what other advance do I need? sorry for all these simple questions, but I am no expert on these.

 

[sgtpontiac]

No sweat.....

I will have to check to see if it has weights on it. If I am getting the vacume advance what other advance do I need? sorry for all these simple questions, but I am no expert on these.

You need Static or base timing (normally 8 to 12 degrees) advance that comes in as the engine rev's ( the weights below the rotor do this with centrifical force) .and vacuum advance normally comes in as eng vac drops to get over the hump between static or base timing the centrifical advance from the weights under the rotor.....
I just nexteled my friend who says that 7 pins cannot be used and to use either a 4 or 5 pin..... the 5th pin is for the knock sensor that was used after 1981 on cars that didn't use ESC electronic spark control.....

so.... you need a 4 pin with vacuum advance and the weights under the rotor type of dist..... easy converstion from points with simple hook up of 12v to the battery terminal of the dist.... I hope Im describing this ok......

 

[jawman]

my v8 dissy only has 3 wires coming out of it, so where do you get 4 and 5 wires? I understand I have the one dissy with a 3 wire plug then the extra 4 wire plug.

 

[adam]

distributor, not dissy or dizzy!

 

[jawman]

who wants to spell out distributor? I am lave. besides if I give it a different name I dont have to use proper spelling.

 

[sgtpontiac]

from the dist itself....

my v8 dissy only has 3 wires coming out of it, so where do you get 4 and 5 wires? I understand I have the one dissy with a 3 wire plug then the extra 4 wire plug.

there should be 4 wires coming out of the dist from the module connections...
on the cap you have where that 4 wire connector goes into the cap and the front two connections are for the power and Tach...

 

[sgtpontiac]

here is shot of 4 wire module birds eye view

I hope that this helps.... you might only have a pink or red, a black and a tan or brown actually coming out of the dist..... they had several harnesses both internally and externally grounded...... sorry forgot about that....

 

[jawman]

I think I figured it out. you can not use an HEI 7 wire type without running a computer. I first put the dissy in to if it would spark, but got nothing. I called around to the auto parts stores to try and find some answers or new dissy. I found one for $110 and one for $130 with a $40 core charge. and sense I dont really now the condition of my motor I dont want to shell out a bunch of money on it I started thinking. I tore apart both the v8 an v6 dissys completely and after 3 hours of work I reassembled the v8 dissy with the v6 contact pieces. It would of went a lot better, but the drive shaft on the v6 dissy had some much burnt on oil it would not push through the upper bushing. after a while of hammering the bushing some out with the shaft. I couldnt get the bushing off so I finally cut the shaft off to get the 6 point gear off. after that it went back together easy. I put it in the engine and hooked up one plug wire and I have spark now. In the morning I will hopefully be able to fire the motor and see if it is an good. so I guess you can convert a v8 HEI to a V6 just takes some work.

 

[sgtpontiac]

Now you're cooking with gas!!!!

Sounds like you got it sorted out.... good deal... hopefully all will be well when you decide to fire this beast up.....

 

[jawman]

tried and tried, but NO fire. I think the firing order is 1-6-5-4-3-2. I marked the groove in the crank counter weight with a paint pen and I guess the crank goes around 2 times for every one revolution of the distributor. I tried to find the compression stroke for #1 and put the crank at 0 degrees TDC, then I lined up the star gear with the star ring in the distributor by rotating the base of the dissy. I put the rotor back on and figured out what contact on the cap lined up with the rotor and started putting the plug wires on in the hopefully correct firing order 1-6-5-4-3-2. DID I DO IT RIGHT???

I cranked and cranked, but no fire. I put a little gas down the carb and all I get is a little smoke, but no fire. I guess I am going to pull the valve cover off and see when the rockers are loose for #1 and re do everything.

 

[sgtpontiac]

alrighty then.....

First of all, firing order is correct....165432...don't worry about the pole piece and shaft alignment.... get the engine to top dead center on number one.... I would have someone bump it over until you feel compression and then line up the timing mark at 0 on the timing mark....then decide where on the cap you want the number one wire to sit.... can be anywhere but is usually on of the front of cap as you're looking at it... then drop the dist in so that the rotor falls into the location.... you may have to either turn the oil pump shaft or hold the dist in and have someone bump the starter till it drops in, then crank it until the rotor is back at the no 1 plug wire location... you should be near 0 degrees tdc.... put the cap on and check the firing order in a clockwise rotation..... pull a plug wire off the plug and hold it close to the intake and while someone cranks it... make sure you have spark at the plug end... if you do, it should fire the plugs.... play with dist turning clockwise to retard and counterclock wise to advance the timing.... should run... if not or no spark need to look at where power from ign is coming from to the dist cap as it must be 12 volts..... let me know what you get from doing these steps.....

 

[jawman]

the motor is sitting on a wheel dolly and strapped down, so it is secure and wont fall over or anything. I have a battery on the floor with a ground from the block to the batt. and a power from the starter to the batt. I then have a power wire going to the starter and one to the dissy that I touch to the batt. to get action. SO I am getting power and everything. I have checked for spark on the #2 cylinder just because it was close and I have spark. I guess I should check and see if all the other plugs are getting spark too.

 

[jawman]

we have fire I repeat we have fire.[cl[cl now I just need to hook up the gas to the car and figure out how to tune a holley carb. I know edelbrock, but never touched a holley