Hanner welding

[Willowbilly3]

Does anyone on here still do it? I used to but haven't since I got my wire feed. I've got one front fender that needs a lot of work and have decided I'm tired of trying to do a decent job with the wire feed and all that frikken grinding. To me, this is the only right way to do the best job in any area you can hammer and dolly. Some will defend or argue with that.

Here's a couple videos I found. It's definitely easier with 2 people, a luxury I've never had. One guy has to lay down the torch then pick up the hammer and dolly pretty fast. No time to turn the torch off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRqbdKZAzoU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv5bKXJ3kEM

 

[Skip]

I got a kick out of wire welding some huge cracks in my fenders, then just knocking the top of of the weld and leaving it so everyone could see what a piece of junk fender I started with. [

Hammer welding is something i would like to try out some more, though. I have done a bit of it, sort of, but not exactly.

 

[Willowbilly3]

It's not really that hard. The hardest part is laying the torch down fast so you can pick up the hammer and dolly, you don't have time to turn it off.

 

[Skip]

I can see that. I think that is why it is almost a lost art. It takes two people. Then they start hollerin' at each other cuz the other guy isn't doin' his part right.

 

[Willowbilly3]

I'm going to make some kind of saddle to lay it in so the torch isn't burning something up where it falls or twists to after I lay it down.

 

[Willowbilly3]

OOPs, I just noticed I spelled hammer hanner, doh!

 

[Skip]

I'm going to make some kind of saddle to lay it in so the torch isn't burning something up where it falls or twists to after I lay it down.

That would more than likely be my pants leg.

 

[sneakysnake]

OOPs, I just noticed I spelled hammer hanner, doh!

LoL, that's why I clicked, didn't know what you were talking about. [

 

[smallfoot]

I've used the method on thicker stuff than body metal. But much like Skip, I wasn't worrried too much with hiding welds on the rat...
Some of the finest cutting blades in the world were hammer welded with much more primitive resources for doing so.

 

[23crate]

I love this,,, !!! when I had a gas set or in the place I used to work for on resto or custom weld and quite good at if I say so my own self....

hard part is laying the torch down so it doesn't roll over and set fire to part of myself..

recommend a torch holder of some sort not human . weld a little maybe 3/4 inch -with no filler rod - if you can- as it adds to the steel and may require a shrink to reform the original shape . if the steel is still glowing it doesn't need much convincing to hold the shape ..

try also rounding any corners no 90' corners as it shrinks a larger area and is more difficult to reshape .
Weld the centre - leaving the edges until last as edges tend to be where the metal is at its strongest ie where any shape is held.

reform the original shape in the 'patch panel' before you weld- don't try and make it as you go .. you'll be doomed to a big can of filler

flame should be set slightly carburizing - that is 1-2mm feather on a 1/4" bright blue cone using a panel tip -- (how was taught to set the flame)


and a big cold wet rag for flat panels

I really miss this welding it does need patience,, this also can be achieved with a TIG welder..

over and out Crate

 

[dutch]

I never understoodthis kinda welding/bodywork...
If you weld with no rod, you need to do a really really good job in fitting the panels. Then you start welding in small sections which couses uneven warpage, then you beat the crap out of your nice fitting panels and hope for the best...? Also wet rags..? really? The faster you cool ,the more warpage...
I`m probably missing something here...

 

[Willowbilly3]

Ditch, the wet rags are only for shrinking. I never use them for most general welding. If this is done properly, a light hit with a d/a and it's ready for primer, no filler required. The video with the 2 guys and loud music, they seem to be pretty aggressive with the hammer, I don't remember ever getting that wild. And 23, I never could get a weld hammered down with a tig, probably just me. Seems like a lot of extra filler to pound in, thus causing stretch??

 

[dutch]

I may have to find someone to show and teach me then... I don`t see any advantage over welding the panels with no filler rod in one single pass. When you weld in one pass ,you have very even heat distibution and therefor very even shrink and minimal warpage. dress and planish the weld and a light hit with the DA and no filler needed...
Once you start filling gaps with filler rod the heat band gets uneven and it shrinks and warps uneven, making things more difficult.

tacked



welded with no rod in one pass



planished and filed welds

 

[23crate]

Dutch, wet rags generally could be used when say doing a lower piece on a door, more so to keep the upper section of the door cool. in
this scenario the rag could be also used to quickly cool the weld area before the next weld is started. reduces overall warpage.
the general rule is the dolly your using - to help reduce deformation - has very very similar shape of the original panel, the panel hammer is used in a glancing blow - end on it the hammer sweeps in an elliptical - egg shaped - this allows 2 things ; 1- quicker repetition of blows, 2; less likely to stretch try it with a nail youll see the difference quite quickly. bit of practice and willow is right quick da & prime
W B,, cant say for sure . sometimes tig will cool faster than the tools can be reached .. definitely do-able, sometimes welds need to be worked a bit harder, short welds work best . get a dolly shaped like your panel is before you start . tig is so low heat distortion is very limited.. glancing elliptical blows . if you remember not to hammer in nails, think trying to bend them over also often welds don't need to be bashed to death -so to speak- repetitive tapping works - slower but with less filler
one note panel hammer doesn't need to be heavy my best favourite-ist is very light,
oh yeah check the hammer face, needs to be very nearly flat !! not convex

luck
Crate

 

[dutch]

ok, thanks for the info.... guess I`ll have to do some experimenting. I think I may have a hard time finding someone overhere to teach me...

 

[jfg455]

Damn Dutch! Is that some of your work? Outstanding [P

 

[Willowbilly3]

dutch, from the looks of your work you are probably way ahead of most of us anyway. Most of us don't have a planishing hammer and it might be a little tricky to get those 40 ford panel truck fenders into one if I did. I do agree a nice fit and no filler rod would be ideal. The less heat with a torch the better for sure, but this is 70 year old metal and isn't always consistent in thickness so a little filler is required sometimes and as I mentioned, the filler wire also acts as a heat sink to help control the heat in thin areas. I just use those 5 pound rolls of soft tie wire.

 

[dutch]

yea, I agree with old panels it may need some Mc-gyvering here and there. I`m Always open to new (for me) techniques... when time permits I`ll dive into this hammer business I hope to start panel work on a 54 Chevy pick up next week or so. I might be able to try some of it on that one
btw, there was no planishing hammer involved in the pics. I dont own one either. Just hammer and dolly.

 

[Willowbilly3]

I hope you can put a few pictures up when you start that project. Most of us can use any good help tips when banging this old tin.

 

[dutch]

will do... I bet I can use a tip or two also...
been forging big chunks for years but I started shaping sheetmetal less than a yr ago. Not a whole lot of experience there yet.