Is there any way to truly be era correct when building a rat?

[335windowchevy]

I was doing some research on building a era correct rat/patina/retro rod and found that there arent many resources out there for era correct roddng out there. The only info about 40s and 50s rodding is from a few old diehards I have met in my life, one of which was a so-cal rodder in the 50s and said modern "Raters" as he called us know little to nothing about the way they were built back then. and said alot of the standard "accepted" ideas for building supension in ratrod culture today would have been laughed at back then and most of what we build and call a traditional style rod is more of a parody of what was built way back when. Im only 29 so i really have no idea whats proper and whats not.

Personaly my goal is to build a rod my grandpa would have picked my grandma up to go to the movies in, and somthing I can be proud to call my own.

Any thoughts?

 

[echnidna]

Back in the day hotrodders used what they could scrounge.
Much the same as ratrodders do these days.

If you want period correct restore a vintage car

 

[dmw56]

Get these books.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Traditional-Ford-Revised/dp/0760309000

http://www.amazon.com/Build-Period-Correct-Design-Performance/dp/1934709328

 

[Tripper]

Any thoughts?

Well... ummm... hummm... er... there is this other forum... but ummm... don't mention a certain three letter "R" word!!! [ddd[ddd

 

[rainman]

Rat phenomenon is a fairly new term, at least as compared to other terms used in hot rodding!! Lots of difference between a rat, and traditional rod!! If you don't believe me, go ask the rodent sight!!
My answer would be what it always is on this subject, the first rule to building a RAT: 1. there are NO rules!!!!

BTW if you wanted to build what would be consisdered an old "RAT",
research the term Jalopy!!!

 

[Flipper_1938]

It can be done. ...but it will be a pain to pull off.

You can only use parts from your cut-off year and before and only use tools/build techniques that were used before that year (no mig welding).

In general, the car will sit a lot higher and be a lot slower than a typical rat rod built today.

My suggestion would be to spend several days going through some of the big picture threads on the HAMB and figure out what design elements in early cars speak to you. ...and then start collecting parts to assemble one.

I would shoot for a car having an early vibe rather than being truely period correct.

 

[Toad]

Just like "rat rod", a idea used by anti-traditionalists, "period correct" is a modern idea and term coined by elitistists. Hot rodders have always broken with tradition or we'd all still be using flatheads. Hot rodders dropped the flathead like a hot potato for the OHV SBC and most of the "period correct" crowd weren't even born during "the period". [ddd

Toad

 

[Bonehead]

It is an interesting subject. Mainly based on the terminology. Traditionalists, is a term I can't get through my thick head. Doing everything as if was the past is really not possible, because it is not the past. However, building a hotrod, that honors hotrods back when hotrods started to appear, I get. But when did they start, and what kind of parts were used, and did they look like? I don't think it is that big of a deal.
My advice? Look at all the old photos, and read up on all the old engines, understand the flyboys coming home after WWII, and having a project in the garage. But don't try to live in their shoes. The era, and situations were different then, and it is much more complicated than it appears at first glance. Besides, hotrods have been around longer than that. After you study a little, sit all that stuff aside, and figure out what you like the best out of everything you learned, and build your version of it.
But if you want to copy a hotrod from a era, that is okay too. Just don't take yourself to seriously. And if you end up with disc brakes, and radial tires, and a fan belt that lasts the life of the car, I think that is okay. Besides, think of the time you will save, trying to find leaded regular gas, for 25 cents a gallon.

 

[Sam_Fear]

... one of which was a so-cal rodder in the 50s and said modern "Raters" as he called us know little to nothing about the way they were built back then.

Kinda depends on what he considers a rat - is he grouping traditionals with rats? Rat rodders aren't concerned with tradition, they just like the look and go that direction. Most often a rat rodder does things kinda like they did it back then because it has been proven to work well and looks cool, not because it's period correct. Traditonals CAN get it wrong.

and said alot of the standard "accepted" ideas for building supension in ratrod culture today would have been laughed at back then

I would like to hear what he meant by that! I think that would be very interesting to a lot of us.

and most of what we build and call a traditional style rod is more of a parody of what was built way back when.

That is because they are. But again it also depends if he lumps traditionals and rats together.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

The only info about 40s and 50s rodding is from a few old diehards I have met in my life, one of which was a so-cal rodder in the 50s and said modern "Raters" as he called us know little to nothing about the way they were built back then. and said alot of the standard "accepted" ideas for building supension in ratrod culture today would have been laughed at back then and most of what we build and call a traditional style rod is more of a parody of what was built way back when.

This is exactly true. Those guys lived it, and they know the difference.

It sounds like you are on the right track to build something really cool. Fads come and go, and let's face it guys - this whole halfassed-rusty-sloppy-cartoon build style is as much a fad as easter-egg paint jobs and digital dashes. I agree that it's a whole lot cooler and more fun, but it too shall pass. A well built, simple, traditionally styled stripped-down hot rod NEVER goes out of style. Pick up a hot rod magazine from just about any era - from gaudy 60's customs to 80's pro street - and more than likely somewhere you are going to find at least a quip about a simple old hot rod. That's because they are ALWAYS cool - no matter what the flavor of the month is.

The Vern Tardel/Mike Bishop book will give you a lot of insight to how a hot rod would have been built in the early 50's, and it is a great read. Even if you don't stick to a strictly "period" build plan, you can pick up a lot of hints and styling cues for what you are after.

BTW - Nice to see someone with a mini-truck background trying to build something that is actually a hot rod with at least a historic appearance, not some airbagged abortion that should have stayed an S-10. Your grandpa would be proud.

 

[donsrods]

A lot of what people consider "traditional" depends on where and when you lived. I grew up in the 50's and 60's and my views on traditional are going to be different from, let's say, someone who grew up in Southern California.

Where I lived (in steel town Pittsburgh Pa) we rarely saw a hot rod, and if we did it was a lot like what some would call a rat rod today. Not so much with the maltese crosses and spider web things, but just sort of rough around the edges, welded sometimes with torches and coat hangers, and rarely finish painted. We sprayed primer with vacuum cleaner attachments, and scrounged parts where we could find them with our limited money. Maybe there were exceptions, but not in the crowd I hung around with.

The guys in So California seemed to have nicer cars and more money to spend on them for some reason. Californians have always placed a lot of importance on what you drive and the hot rods were a reflection of that. So if you ask one of them what tradition is their point of reference will be different from mine.

Tradition is in the eye of the beholder.

Don

 

[skull]

books

go real old skool and find some rod type magazines from the 60's.

l have some 1966-1980 car/rod mags and the chevy small block for a motor was the accepted normal.

go to the library and see if in the archives they have some pics and story's of the era your'e thinking of building the rod to emulate.

Later

 

[Sam_Fear]

I was thinking about this thread awhile. You need to find a picture of what you want yours to look like and make that your goal. Don't worry so much if it is period correct, because period correct brakes suck in todays traffic and your non-existent period correct seat belts will not save you, etc. etc.

 

[sneakysnake]

I built mine in the "spirit" of hotrodding.I cleaned my yard and built a car.Most of what went into my rod was something I had drug home in the past,its just that I had old and new to choose from.I know some people frown on some of my choices, but I didnt go through a Speedway mag and mail order a rod.I can respect the guys that want to keep their rides in a era period but part of being "individual" is not doing it like everyone else.

 

[Willowbilly3]

If you want "period" correct then you have to pick a pretty short period and location.
Most of the survivors I have seen were horribly cobbled up pieces of doo-doo.
My approach was to build my rod more "in the spirit" than any period, and not to recreate or follow the lines of any "rat" fad. What that means is using what you can find in a junkyard and making it work, not opening up a catalog and ordering a disc brake kit or fatman MII front end. I do still have disc brakes as I consider that a safety issue to drive on the same road with modern cars, but I still use my own mix of parts to do it, not a mail order kit. And my engine is 1963 with a 90s T-5 (junkyard parts) but other than that it's a 50s style rod, even to the point of hammer welding most of the body with a oxy/acetylene.
Also remember that cars had patina or primer only because the owner didn't have the money to paint it, not because that was a look he was going for. Patina is a modern misinterpretation and more of a fad than holding true to a previous era.
What we call ratrods are fun and a great way to get into rodding without huge cash investments. Period correct is about as far removed from ratrods as an import tuner other than some crossover traditional trend rods that just happen to have a crappy finish.

 

[GJunktionMike]

A lot of what people consider "traditional" depends on where and when you lived.

My grandpa and great uncle (both brothers of my bootlegging great grandpa) were motorheads from way back (grandpa ww2 vet, owner of a salvage yard for years) (uncle korean vet, construction worker and car builder) . Both had thier own ideas of car building and what a traditioal build was. It was funny to listen to them talk shop, but they always agreed that there are 3 types of cars. 1. origianal 2. if a ride was modified to go faster it was a hot rod, under build or finished. 3. if it was realy modified it was a custom, under build or finished. But at what time a car was finished was another story. Like my uncle would alway say " What idiot wouldn't use newer up dated parts to make the ride better" Grandpa would say "Who are you calling an idiot". The thing is make it safe, drive nice and look way cool. Just don't trash good metal foresake of making somthing else out of it. To me ratrodding is taking what you have to work with and making a cool ride to what ever degree of finish you want. But sometimes you end up with a hotrod

 

[CR55]

The guys all make valid points. Nothing to me looks better than a car modeled after something from the 50's or 60's. But why would you want to have everything period correct? For those of you too young to remember single bore master cylinders with 4 wheel drum brakes, let me clue you in to what a fun experience they were! You haven't lived until you hit the brakes and there are none! The flintstone car will come to your mind instantly. Or how about finicky points and condensers? The list goes on and on...I think you get the picture. Build it to look like an oldie but update wherever you can......just my 2 cents......cr

 

[TiredIronGRB]

I'm a "Traditionalist" and love old Hotrods and Customs but my favorite cars are what I call "Rough Rods" which is what I mostly build. I love the styling from back in the day but I also like a safe vehicle so I use dual stage master cylinders, seat belts and modern fuel cells.

What I can't stand is anything billet, IFS or "Junk/Shock rods".

 

[daddy crab]

ratrods

keep it simple no billet almm, no billet rims and pre 1965 all should go well!!![ddev

 

[the reverend muddy grimes]

I really like this question. Makes you have to think[cl