ViVA las rat rod

[Bonehead]

I don't know if you guys have seen the post by Checker Jim on KB, but it has got me thinking about the future of Hot Rodding. It is based on the following link:

http://www.vivalasvegas.net/carshow.php

Look mostly at the pictures of the types of cars that won't be allowed at the bottom of the page.

The crux of the post is the LasVegas car show that has always had rats in it is not letting them in this year.

Sledge came in and explained himself:


"The term Rat Rod was brand new when the show started and it ment, rough looking, primered "traditional" Hot Rod! Not total pieces of junk thrown together to purposely look scarry and rediculous, but rather unfinished tough looking early style Hot Rods. Somewhere over the course of the last 10 years that term rat rod just gotten used, abused and twisted so much that now it's just a joke in many hot rod circles. the term rat rod has taken on a whole new meaning and and most of the traditional hot rod guys have abandoned it and dont want anything to do with it. Thats because they are serious about hot rodding and dont want to be associated with junk. I realize that may be kinda harsh but it's the truth and if we dont do something about it now then im afraid that in another 10 years the "rat rod" will be more of a joke than 1980's street rods or the Fad T of the 70's. But it may already be too late. Too many cars are being built just to be loud, low, and nasty looking without much thought being put into style, stance, and speed."

And that's okay, free country and all that...
But it got me thinking about the future of Hot Rodding is the current trend to go backwards in time good for the hobby?
We all know what looks right, and a three duce set up is just cool, no doubt, but my point is why limit what can be done to a car/truck. Any way, and not to stir the pot, more for discusssion, I bring this up. Jeff


....

 

[Tripper]

Rat rod!

Yes, I've seen some really scary lookin' cars that I wouldn't ride in (or drive), but as long as a car is safe & road worthy... everything else is just a matter of opinion. If I don't want to spend a lot of $$$ on a paint job or interior... that's what I'm gonna do. My car gets a LOT of attention @ shows & everyone seems to love it, so it some people hate all the attention rats get... that's their problem!!!

And wow... the types of cars they are excluding is unbelievable... to me @ least!!!

BoB

 

[Bonehead]

I agree about the safety and scarey part of some Rat rods, But if I use wide tires on the back of my truck, I am out. I just think we are spending too much time catagorizing cars. What is a traditional syle car with wide tires even called? A rat rod? Who knows, Who cares? The point is where are we headed? In 40 years will there be "traditional rat rods".... Are we the future?

 

[hotrodron]

Yeha. I think its a little ridiculous myself. I don't personally get to go to this show since I live in Ohio, but I've always heard what a good time it is. I can understand the Pre-63 American cars and bikes only, but to exclude anyone who drives what they consider to be a rat rod is just crazy. Just because a few people have built some "junk" and called it a rat rod doesn't make all rat rods junk. These guys need to remeber why the show was started and remember that not everybody can afford a $10K paint job. I think after the turnout drops drastically this year, they'll get the idea and things will start to get back to normal.

 

[gassersgarage]

I read that and wondered if my 31' would be acceptable. It has patina, but everything is traditional. Mmmm,,,I might send a photo in to see if I qualify.

I saw that Rat Rod sedan at a Mooneyes show about 2 years ago. 21" tires tucked in with a solid mounted axle
Needless to say, it was trailered in.........

 

[chopper tom]

I think things are getting to serius ,its suppose to be about haveing fun,to me .
I never liked going to car shows anyways ,the cruisins are more popular around here .Too many fights and arguments over a $2.00 trophy i guess .
people are just too uptight anymore .
You guys know that this typ of stuff is just gonna help fuel the lawmakers dont ya.
Just like the choppers ,over exsposure will be the death of rat rods too.
Its some thing to think about !

 

[chopper tom]

You guys shouldint get so bent anyways, some one will step up and offer a rat show anyways, theres too much money to be had from it .
Thats what the shows are all about anyways....money.

 

[Bonehead]

I'm not bent about not being allowed into any show. I can't enter my truck in a dog show and that doesnt bother me. It is a Shifters CC show, and they can certainly make their own rules. My question is, is there a futrue in Rat rods?

 

[pablo]

I was a bit floored by the photos of what they consider un acceptable vehicles. It looks to me like they are leaning toward being traditionalist snobs. I have for the most part enjoyed the culture around Rat rods, and the traditional hot rods, but if anyone thinks that Pchycobilly music and girls covered in tattoos is authentic to the 50's they are smoking crack! Only Sailors had Tattoos in the 50's and no respectable female, or unrespectable female would have tattoos of any kind. I personally enjoy the hybrid of 50's culture mixxed with the new rebel mentality, I dig girls with tattoos and cars with wide rear tires. If the shifters want to be snobs about what they let in, I will stay away, and look to hang with people that are fun to hang out with.... like you guys.

Pablo

 

[35Mastr]

I think there is some future.Taditional cars have been around for many years.Its just been renamed Rat Rod because so many have moved away from spending the big money on them.I think that the name has been around alot longer than we think.It just was not as publicized like it is now.I think these type of cars will be around forever.I dont blame Viva for not allowing certain cars this year.There is alot of those thrown together unsafe cars more now at the shows now then there ever was.Before people would trailer them in as under construction.Now they are driving them in with hand brakes and all other kinds of really unsafe equipment.Well thats enough rant for now.

Back to Jim, Checker

He was talking about putting on his own show for all those that would not be appritiated at Viva.I dont know if its still being planned out of if the idea has been abandoned.

 

[joehalford01]

something tells me they are making a little bit of "change" now and have come away from their roots. I think a large part of the drive against rat-rods has a lot to do with vendors. Think about it, how can anyone make money if were all fabricating our own stuff? Companies don't want people to realize they can do it on their own. They want us to think that if we can't pre-order bolt in stuff or have it built at a shop, we can't drive a hot-rod. It dosn't bother the bean counter at all if joe smoe spends several thousand on parts only to have his car sit because he needs several more thousand. I think people are tired of it and thats where the whole rat rod thing came from. Build it yourself for cheap and spend your hard earned money right.

I don't think rat-rods will disappear as a fad per say, I think a lot of people are getting that old mentality back of do it yourself.

 

[Todd]

I read an explination somewhere that it wasn't just the cars. A large portion of the problem was also the drunk, loud, fighting and disrespecting women crowd.
It took a lot of people to overcome that stereotype years ago. I honestly don't blame them for trying to "nip it in the bud". Dressing like a 50's rodder is cool and all, but nobody wants to see you be the baddest @$$ out there.
After all.....It's about the cars!

 

[Bonehead]

I'm with you Joe, The vendors have been booked for a year or two for that show, but I don't think that is the whole reason. I also agree that the "home built" rods may replace the rat rod. One of our new members brought in the term "home built", and it really fits more of us here.

 

[joehalford01]

I read an explination somewhere that it wasn't just the cars. A large portion of the problem was also the drunk, loud, fighting and disrespecting women crowd.
It took a lot of people to overcome that stereotype years ago. I honestly don't blame them for trying to "nip it in the bud". Dressing like a 50's rodder is cool and all, but nobody wants to see you be the baddest @$$ out there.
After all.....It's about the cars!

I agree, people like that need to get over themselves and I wouldn't go a second time to a show like that. However, I think there are better ways to control those kind of people then by elimnating a whole group of cars. As far as fights-more security-kick them out without their cars if they start fights-they can come back after the show and after they have sobered up. No tolerance, trouble makers don't have any rights once they start ruining everyone else's fun as far as i'm concerned.

There is no reason they couldn't post a set of rules regarding operating brakes and other safety concerns such as a full floor-no open driveshafts etc, and have a tech inspector at the gate- no different then the race track. This is only my 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[ratrodshrum]

I'm not bent about not being allowed into any show. I can't enter my truck in a dog show and that doesnt bother me. It is a Shifters CC show, and they can certainly make their own rules. My question is, is there a futrue in Rat rods?

No future as stated above its the same with choppers. Everything gets played out. I always thought that "Rat Rods" were more or less traditional built cars built by people in there Garage. Now the term means totally different. Commercialization ruins everything. When you can turn on a TV and a show is building a Rat Rod and they throw skulls and street signs all over it,but you know they have 10,000 dollars in it. You pretty much know its over.

I understand why they are doing it,don't blame them one bit.
I actually believe you have to make some kind of commitment to what you believe in.
They want cars that have some style to them and todays rat rodz being built by some are just truck or cars thrown together with no style or flow. With junk thown on for shock value.

 

[Unkl Ian]

There are Rat Rods,and there are rat rods.
Some are minimalist hot rods,with a different idea of fit and finish;
some are just unsafe junk.

There is also unsafe junk that is shiney and expensive.
Don't hear too much about them lately.
------
There was a column in the old Custom Rodder magazine,way back when
it was still a good magazine.The author talked about the new(at the time)
trend of Rat Rods.His message was "lets not try and out Rat the next guy".
Of course,that is exactly what happened.

Now the tide is moving back the other way.

To my way of thinking,Rat Rods started as a reaction to the mainstream street rods,getting more expensive,smoother,and more high tech every year.

The same way Punk music was a reaction to Disco music,
hot rodders looked for an alternative.They started using
less popular and "incorrect" parts,not finished to perfection.

And a few people got carried away.


Now the self appointed Snobs are having their turn.

 

[donsrods]

I'm going to play both sides of the fence here for the sake of discussion. First of all, there is a very fine line between some traditional cars and some rat rods. Even experts like on the HAMB have trouble it seems telling the difference because I see them applauding cars all the time that sure look like rats to me. I guess it is in the eye of the beholder and who is building the car.

Now for the other side of the fence....... I have used the term "evolving" in relation to rats for some time now. I see them evolving somewhat, and that is only in the last year or so. Where they had predominately been cars with questionable construction techniques and materials, and sometimes built for shock value more than usefulness, lately the cars seem more sensible. The lines are getting blurred somewhat, and the newest generation rats are starting to look more like cars that could have been built back in the '40's-'60's.

I think this evolution is good for the hobby. The cars will be safer and cosmetically less offensive to rodders who might otherwise consider them clown cars. I have one of those rodders living in my own house........my Son Dan hates rat rods because he feels a lot of good cars have been destroyed to create cars that can never be returned to any useful condition again. I have countered with the fact that rat rodders usually use cars that are too rough for most rodders to consider using, but he doesn't buy that argument.

Me, I am fairly neutral about the subject. I do like the creativity shown on some rat rods, and am really happy to see people getting dirty and using their hands and brains to build something of their own once again. I saw hot rodding pretty much die in the mid-60's because of the muscle cars. It didn't make sense to slave over building a car when $ 99 a month would buy you a faster, better car with a warranty..........and your girlfriend didn't mind riding in it. Rat rods have Fathers, Moms, Sons and Daughters doing something together again and that is a win win situation no matter how you slice it.

On the other side of the coin, I think the Las Vegas decision is pretty weird. How do you determine that one car is fine and another is not acceptable?

Don

 

[Bonehead]

The thread on KB is taking an ugly turn, and is separating the guys who love cars from the guys who love cars. One thing about the subject is, we can't divide to the point of civil war between car lovers. Traditional cars really means built with correct parts, not home built or T frames, and powered by motors of the period, which ever period that is. And tires and wheels from that same period. I get that. ( there is also the web and skull discussion) Mine is not a "traditional" rod by any means. But on the other hand that drops a bunch of the cars out of the running. It is almost too bad this site isn't named "a bunch of car nuts rule". I just hate to see Rat Rod turn into something so negative.

 

[Unkl Ian]

Clown Cars is a fitting description.
------
Another trend I've seen starting is large diameter billet wheels(20"+),
with low profile directional tread tires,and a respectable chassis,under
a completely rusty body.

There were a couple at the Detroit Autorama last year,one had a
FWD EFI V6 engine and transaxle in the back of the chopped Model A Tudor.Another had a blown late model 4 cyl in front.

Air bags also seem to be getting more common,even on fenderless cars.
------
Some have taken "traditional" to the point of historical re-enactment.

 

[Bonehead]

Sorry to keep this up but it is on my mind. After reading the KB post from a 2nd Shifters guy, he defended the ban by saying that is the way it has always been, But looking at the 2007 pictures from the show, some very similar vehicles were there. A t-bucket with wide radial tires, a rat with skulls and super tall e-pipes, I am mostly wondering why the swing, and why now? And what has made the Shifters banning cars that have been there before. maybe it was the people.