Welding a main leaf? Can you do that?

[maddog]

I have several springs but the main leaf is too long in all of them. Could the main leaf be shortened, them put back together (welded) and clamped into the center perch? It could also be pinned next to the weld for extra piece of mind.

Is this ever done?
__________________

 

[Bonehead]

No. Best you can do is go to a spring builder and have them shorten the spring at the eye, by cutting off the old one, and rolling a new one. Here we have a place called "Alcan Springs". Don't know who you could use locally.

It may be cheaper to find a different set of springs to work with.

 

[maddog]

I gotta ask, why not?
If its ok to use a quarter eliptical spring, and it clamps at the fat end, why not clamp the center of a pack of springs with the main leaf attached in the middle?

If the clamped area between the ubolts is big enough, with a plate below the main leaf, why not?

I asked this question on the HAMB and I quickly got no, no, no, NO,NO, *** no and a few others, but no explaination.

I get it thats its against conventional wisdom, but why?

 

[Bonehead]

Okay, here goes. Cutting off a spring and bolting into place does little to the metal.
If you weld on a spring, you change the temper in the steel on both sides of your weld. The weld my hold, but you will usually get a crack on one side, or the other, or both. Usually right at the heat line. Welding tempered steel usually crystalizes the metal right next to the weld.
Picture this: torch a screen door spring right in the middle until it is red hot. Let it cool, and stretch it out. More than likely you will break it where you heated it up. If it does not break, it will stretch out, and not return to shape.
In either case, it is not what you want holding your axle in place.

 

[maddog]

Not to beat a dead horse, but...

I understant the welding, cracking next to the weld, heat thing.
The center 3 inches of the spring is clamped or sandwiched and is not working so would it still crack?

What about drilling and pinning it to the leaf above and a plate below and then clamp it with two u bolts? Still no go?

 

[Bonehead]

Ah, but it is working. The spring works as a whole from one end to the other. I know, I know, it is clamped down tight, but there is pressure inside the spring.

Okay, if you want to beat a dead horse, you could cut the spring stack in two and have two quarter eleptical springs facing different directions.

I used to have a 4 wheel drive shop, and a cracked main spring would always show up with the vehicle leaning towards that side. Sometimes you couldn't see it, until you took the spring out. Usually the area around the crack would be shiney. From movement.

 

[maddog]

Allrighty then, I think this horse is done. Thanks Bonehead for taking the time.

 

[52bombshell]

getting a new main spring or even a new spring pack really isnt that expensive up here in canada lots of 4x4 guys get them made for bigger lifts

 

[bob w]

Back in the olden days when I was young, I can remember seeing a pair of parallel leaf springs that were shortened by the rear eye. The main leaf was overlapped about 4 or 5 inches and welded along the sides. Stick welded, I'm sure. I don't know if the welded spring leaf was retempered, but if it wasn't, I would suspect it didn't last too long. As "thrifty" as I am, this isn't a place where I would try to save a buck. You can have the main leaf eyes re-rolled or have new main leafs made.

 

[maddog]

Yeah, thats what I am getting too. I will just have one made. BUT, in the mean time, I think I will cut one of mine and build me a stack just to set the car on for the purpose of the build. No harm there. This will also allow me to go through the motions of figureing out the whole front end set-up. I've spent enough money allready this month, and its only the 9th.

Maybe I will put it on my christmass list........ and then post the list here. Dont be alarmed, its gonna look something like the Speedway catalog.

 

[Unkl Ian]

You MIGHT get away with it.

Or it might break,late one night in the middle of nowhere.
In the rain.

 

[donsrods]

Yep MD, don't even think about it. As Bonehead mentioned, there are truck spring and axle places around the country that can make you a new main leaf. I had one done for my '27 years ago, it was $ 18. Went back to same place last year for one to put on the front of my '39 Dodge, it was now $ 118.!! Inflation. But it was done right and went right on.

Best part is, it shouldn't break on some dark, rainy night, in the middle of nowhere.

Don

 

[maddog]

No, it most likely wont break, but I can still run out of gas.

To be honest guys, I am still thinking about it. I just read a post from a guy that took an inch out of a main leaf, welded properly, with the correct rod, then heated properly to temper and then clamped and it lasted 100k miles and still going strong. I think it has a lot to do with how its done and how its incorperated into the assembly.

I am not into doing stupid things, but I do things all the time that most shouldnt even try because they cant do it correctly.

Anybody with me on this? Ever done something that "they"said couldnt be done? Remember the Apolo moon missions?

Come on guys, its steel. Just one of thousands that you weld, bend, temper, discover cracks in and promply fix, every day building every hotrod.

There must be some of you that can see that this issue is not any different than any other part of your steering or suspension.

Maybe it doesnt make sense for some of you. But can it be done? Safely, that is the question.

What do you think?

Best part is, it shouldn't break on some dark, rainy night, in the middle of nowhere.

Don

 

[Rev Tex Devlle]

idea

i build car haulers for a living,, and havedone some interesting set ups,, that i told them there was no way it would work,, well i was proved wrong,, after think about what you are trying to do , shorter length eye to eye,, maybe this would work,, just a idea,, ruff drawing

 

[Bonehead]

To be honest guys, I am still thinking about it. QUOTE]

Okay, I am with you on building something different, or doing things that are callanging. After years of building offroad machines, I get to the point where I stay away from building a potential "weak link" into the build. True, you would have a better chance if you welded it and ran it through a forge, and re-tempered the spring. If you are going to do it, study up on how springs are made, and take a field trip to a spring shop.

 

[35Mastr]

No, it most likely wont break, but I can still run out of gas.

To be honest guys, I am still thinking about it. I just read a post from a guy that took an inch out of a main leaf, welded properly, with the correct rod, then heated properly to temper and then clamped and it lasted 100k miles and still going strong. I think it has a lot to do with how its done and how its incorperated into the assembly.

I am not into doing stupid things, but I do things all the time that most shouldnt even try because they cant do it correctly.

Anybody with me on this? Ever done something that "they"said couldnt be done? Remember the Apolo moon missions?

Come on guys, its steel. Just one of thousands that you weld, bend, temper, discover cracks in and promply fix, every day building every hotrod.

There must be some of you that can see that this issue is not any different than any other part of your steering or suspension.

Maybe it doesnt make sense for some of you. But can it be done? Safely, that is the question.

What do you think?

Do it if you like.But welding Spring Steel in any matter is gonna come back and bite you some time later.If you want to cut it up and use it for mock up then take it down and actually have the main part made.Then it would sound ok.But welding on it and actually using it on the street.I would not do it.Just remember that big block is not all that light to start off with.Not to mention that all the compression and decompression from that single spring.It's going to take a good beating just under normal driving conditions.Its just my .02 cents.I just dont want to see you get hurt or worse someone else.

 

[maddog]

Ya know, I gotta say, I am not comfortable with using it on the road.
Ya gotta give me an A for effort at least.
I tried.
All of your warnings are not in vain.
I will cut and weld one up for the mockup, but I like the idea of using it for a pattern for the spring shop. Thanks everybody.

Why couldnt you all just tell me what I wanted to hear? Sheeeeeze.

 

[boaski]

We have a small machine shop & our main business is to build specialty tools. We use 1075/75 spring steel to make a lot of parts for our stuff. We start out with material in the annealed state and cut, waterjet, stamp, punch, drill, form and tap while it's soft. After we have the parts how we want them we send them off to a place that has vacuum heat treat furnaces. Periodically we get tools back from our customers that have been broken. Usually someone decides they can weld the doohickey that broke so they give it a try. When the thing breaks again in a matter if minutes they usually send it back to us for repair.

The point I'm trying to get at is; to cut, weld and form springs and then try to re temper them at home will most likely end in failure. Yes, it can be done but I believe that most people that succeed at home do so by luck and chance. You are far more likely to fail on a part that is usually under substantial stress.

IMHO

 

[Twisted Minis]

Welding to a spring makes it brittle. It also takes out its elasticity, and its no longer really a spring. You shouldn't ever weld to one.