Old Iron
Well-known member
Wasn't meMr Torchie- Who have you been talking to on RRR[
I swear [dddGlad you found the door problem.
If you hadn't went to that engineering course you'd of never found it.
1952 F-6 Build
- Thread starter Torchie
- Start date
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I swear [dddGlad you found the door problem.
If you hadn't went to that engineering course you'd of never found it.
Lead - I used it on my Olds. Worked great on the pillars and stiffer parts, but had a hard time of it going across the more flimsy part of the roof. When I'd heat it up enough to melt the lead, it would start warping the roof down. But... with lead (unlike plastic fillers) you can work the metal from the back side and the lead will flex with it. So I'd put lead on and then push the roof back out a little. Took awhile, but finally got it.
Supposedly the leadless solder is harder to work because it melts at a higher temp and I think has a narrower working temp. But you don't have to worry about the fumes and is safely sandable - which also means the dust you track in to your house is safe. If you have kids I'd suggest leadless - seems to me it's worth the extra $ in that respect. On the other hand, talk to an old car or tractor factory guy and they'll tell you how they just hit lead with a DA like no big deal.
You can fill holes with lead too.
I just used a propane torch - worked great. Next time I'm gonna try the leadless stuff.
Supposedly the leadless solder is harder to work because it melts at a higher temp and I think has a narrower working temp. But you don't have to worry about the fumes and is safely sandable - which also means the dust you track in to your house is safe. If you have kids I'd suggest leadless - seems to me it's worth the extra $ in that respect. On the other hand, talk to an old car or tractor factory guy and they'll tell you how they just hit lead with a DA like no big deal.
You can fill holes with lead too.
I just used a propane torch - worked great. Next time I'm gonna try the leadless stuff.
gold03
He lives in an "Altered State"!
Hey Torchie, how do you think your door windows will be effected? Will you still be able to put them up and down after leaning the door tops in. The question might be a little premature, but I'm dying to know.
My grill has progresses nicely, and I'm getting excited about chopping the roof.
My grill has progresses nicely, and I'm getting excited about chopping the roof.
Torchie
Well-known member
Hey Torchie, how do you think your door windows will be effected? Will you still be able to put them up and down after leaning the door tops in. The question might be a little premature, but I'm dying to know.
My grill has progresses nicely, and I'm getting excited about chopping the roof.
Well gold03 If my mental engineering is correct the widows should still work. If you look close at the pics you can see that the angle of the door tops at the rear of the cab is greater than the angle at the front. So that is one thing. But as long as you keep the channel for the windows on the same plane they should work. You will have to remount the bottom of the divider bar/channel that the front edge of the window rides in so that it is farther into the door.
So basicly what I am saying is that the window instead of going up and down straight inside the door will go up and down inside the door at the same angle as the door tops. The doors are wide enough that this should be achievable. and most likely there will need to be some mods to the mechanisim.As well as getting a larger piece of glass cut due to streching the door tops.(Or maybe I am just full of crap). Hopefully we will be on that part next week.
The bigger job is going to be making the vent windows fit and still work. I was always told by my old custom mentors that working vents was the sign of a good chop job. But since all of those guys have gone on to their great reward I will have to rely on my fellow RRR to keep me on the straight and narrow.
If any one one else on here has more info about making the windows work, please chime in.
Torchie[
gold03
He lives in an "Altered State"!
The only door glass you should have to replace or modify is the vent window. The main door window should remain the same. The top of the A pillar moves forward as it moves down, but the door opening width won't change. So the top of the door will also move forward as it moves down. Save the pieces you cut out. They should be able to fill the top gap.
I'm glad to hear that your windows should still function. [cl
I'm glad to hear that your windows should still function. [cl
Torchie
Well-known member
gold03 you are correct about the window glassof course
Don't know what I was thinking about. I did save all my pieces. The piece that I used to fill in the roof cap is a piece of the A pillar that had gutter attached to it. I will use a piece of the door frame to make the filler for the top of the door frame as well. And what ever i have left I will save for the next one of these that I do. I know a guy that has so many of these cabs that he bought a forklift to move them around
As far as the windows go. We will see. My theory sounds good anyway.
Torchie.[
cfavrett
Active member
windows
I was wondering how the wing window thing worked on a chop. Im still working on buying a 50 Ford cab from a farmer that doesnt need the money or the truck. He just keeps dragging his feet. So I am going to start on a 31 Dodge Sedan turned pickup cab. I have been watching your build and seeing a lot of good stuff. Looking forward to pics of your windows
I was wondering how the wing window thing worked on a chop. Im still working on buying a 50 Ford cab from a farmer that doesnt need the money or the truck. He just keeps dragging his feet. So I am going to start on a 31 Dodge Sedan turned pickup cab. I have been watching your build and seeing a lot of good stuff. Looking forward to pics of your windows
gold03
He lives in an "Altered State"!
Wing window needs to be reshaped. I'm going to try and do mine on a belt sander with fine grit. Tape it all up with masking tape first. card board for pattern. Transfer template to tape and then grind. Then you gotta reshape the frame for the vent glass as well.
Torchie, it's funny how the brain can play little tricks on us. I'm also doing some mental engineering on my Jeep. It goes into terminal death wobble on the same bump every day. [S Darned if I can find the flaw causing it. It's slightly modified and front end shops just start throwing parts at it that don't require replacing. I think ill leave it for tomorrow.
Torchie, it's funny how the brain can play little tricks on us. I'm also doing some mental engineering on my Jeep. It goes into terminal death wobble on the same bump every day. [S Darned if I can find the flaw causing it. It's slightly modified and front end shops just start throwing parts at it that don't require replacing. I think ill leave it for tomorrow.
Torchie
Well-known member
Dodge sedan turned pickup truck. Sounds cool. Was it done during WW2? Thats when most of those types of conversions took place. People couldn't new vehicles so they made due with what they had and you also got more gas rationing cupons with a truck than a car. Post some pics.
The newer the car or truck the harder the chop. The 20's and cars up to about 1933 or 34 had fairley square tops. But starting from about 1935 on things got very curvy. Then start adding curved glass after 1950 and things get real fun.
The Little things like the wind wings are what take the time. Got to cut 2 frames. The one that holds the glass as well as the frame that holds the frame that holds the glass.(Damn. That's alot of holding). And youv'e got to do it all so it still works..Plus those thin ass frames are a pain to weld. That's why you see so many chops with no side windows. At least that's what I think.
I know guys that have spent as much time on just the wings and the garnish mouldings as they have on the actual chop.
Lots of Jeeps around where I live.(Out in the middle of nowhere). Around here we say that Jeep stands for "Just-empty-every-pocket"
Good luck with it
Torchie.
I moved the divider bar forward on my wings. Thought the proportions were off with it in the stock location - the wings looked real long.
I used a belt sander with fairly heavy grit. It caused small chips, but those were taken out with a finer grit later. Just don't sand in one place very long to keep the heat even. At least it worked on my 1948 glass.
I used a belt sander with fairly heavy grit. It caused small chips, but those were taken out with a finer grit later. Just don't sand in one place very long to keep the heat even. At least it worked on my 1948 glass.
GJunktionMike
Something's wrong with that boy!
I a nut shell the window it self doesn't get bigger all the change is in the wind wing (unless you do away with the wind wing). You are going to need to add some to the top of the frame and you will end up with a flat spot in the top . You should still be able to use your old glass (if it was there from the start) and re shape the top. And tipping the window channel to make up for leaning the doors in works great, and because the window is on a swing arm a slight bend in the arm is all that is needed.
gold03
He lives in an "Altered State"!
Hey Mike,
Tell us more about the flat spot. I imagine it is where the fill piece gets welded in. Does the glass need to be reshaped to match the flat sot, or can the flat spot be massaged out?
Tell us more about the flat spot. I imagine it is where the fill piece gets welded in. Does the glass need to be reshaped to match the flat sot, or can the flat spot be massaged out?
Torchie
Well-known member
As Mike states there will be a flatspot in the door top but if you look at my pics of the pieced in gutter section there is a flatspot there as well. remember my analogy about splitting a base ball in half and then adding a band around it. The ball is no longer really round. More watermelon shaped.(Hope That made sense)
I don't really see a way to massage that piece gold03 as it made up of mutiple layers as well as having a channel.
As Gjunction Mike stated in regards to the wings I have considered doing a full window with no wings and have also considered making the wing stationary. My former everyday ride was a 1950 GMC panel and they main difference in those AD style trucks was the window/wing configuration. Same door just different window setups.
Thanks for the input Gjunctionmike. Good to hear that my window plan should work. I thought that I was going to have to give back my Mental Engineering Diploma back to What'samatta U.
Torchie[
Old Iron
Well-known member
I used a 3x21" belt sander and squirt bottle with water to keep the glass cool.
It creates a mess but, so does everything else in hot rodding.
You can buy belts on line that are made to grind glass and be wet at the same time. 10 belts for 10 bucks
Here's where I got mine : http://www.sandinghouse.com/List/Sanding-Belts-For-Glass-and-Mirror
On my 40 Pontiac chop, I used an oxygen/acetylene torch, heated the inside curve of the wing vent frame and bent as needed to fit the shape of the opening. Relocated the upper pivot to line up with the bottom pivot, ground the glass and the wing vents work fine.
It creates a mess but, so does everything else in hot rodding.
You can buy belts on line that are made to grind glass and be wet at the same time. 10 belts for 10 bucks
Here's where I got mine : http://www.sandinghouse.com/List/Sanding-Belts-For-Glass-and-Mirror
On my 40 Pontiac chop, I used an oxygen/acetylene torch, heated the inside curve of the wing vent frame and bent as needed to fit the shape of the opening. Relocated the upper pivot to line up with the bottom pivot, ground the glass and the wing vents work fine.
GJunktionMike
Something's wrong with that boy!
Torchie Looks like your thread is on info overload. Old Iron has the right idea and also the easiest. Once your window is back in with the window track (you have to modify the window track) you can make a pattern of the opening then start heating and reshaping. The other route is cut it up and weld it back together.
Torchie You can retain your Diploma from What'samatta U.
Torchie You can retain your Diploma from What'samatta U.
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Torchie
Well-known member
I used a 3x21" belt sander and squirt bottle with water to keep the glass cool.
It creates a mess but, so does everything else in hot rodding.
You can buy belts on line that are made to grind glass and be wet at the same time. 10 belts for 10 bucks
Here's where I got mine : http://www.sandinghouse.com/List/Sanding-Belts-For-Glass-and-Mirror
On my 40 Pontiac chop, I used an oxygen/acetylene torch, heated the inside curve of the wing vent frame and bent as needed to fit the shape of the opening. Relocated the upper pivot to line up with the bottom pivot, ground the glass and the wing vents work fine.
Great info Old Iron and thanks for the link
That's what makes this site so great. No ego's. No put down's. No "My way is the only way" BS. Just great comments and lots of information. Keep it coming! If we go at it long enough maybe gold03 will chop his
Torchie.
jmlcolorado
Well-known member
Ill jump in the window conversation since I have a good example here.
I used the a pillar portion to patch in the top of my door frame when I did my chop. It created the flat spot that's been spoken about.
It's not as noticeable in the window frame itself, but the reveal at the top of the door is substantial. I will end up filling this in to close it up better.
I wanted to use my wing windows as well, but the top hinge was broken when I got the truck, plus its pot metal and I can't weld it back together or modify it. It's a really odd shape, so I will end up having to manufacturer a hinge to work.
I did get the wing window frame modified and in place..... So it's a start
I used the a pillar portion to patch in the top of my door frame when I did my chop. It created the flat spot that's been spoken about.
It's not as noticeable in the window frame itself, but the reveal at the top of the door is substantial. I will end up filling this in to close it up better.
I wanted to use my wing windows as well, but the top hinge was broken when I got the truck, plus its pot metal and I can't weld it back together or modify it. It's a really odd shape, so I will end up having to manufacturer a hinge to work.
I did get the wing window frame modified and in place..... So it's a start
Torchie
Well-known member
Thanks for the pics jmlcolorado. They show the flat spot perfectly. I will be using the same approach to fill the door top. Your chop looks great!
The one thing that I always remember to do is to focus on the whole look of the project. It is easy for all of us to get caught up in the trap of obbsessing(sp) over the things that are not perfect but frankly most of the time we are the only ones that see them as we are so envolved with the build.
When it is all said and done it will look cool and the best reward is that we did it ourselves[cl
The plan is for some more garage time tonight as tomorrow is another visit to the eye DR's. So don't know what I will get done on Monday.
Torchie
The one thing that I always remember to do is to focus on the whole look of the project. It is easy for all of us to get caught up in the trap of obbsessing(sp) over the things that are not perfect but frankly most of the time we are the only ones that see them as we are so envolved with the build.
When it is all said and done it will look cool and the best reward is that we did it ourselves[cl
The plan is for some more garage time tonight as tomorrow is another visit to the eye DR's. So don't know what I will get done on Monday.
Torchie
gold03
He lives in an "Altered State"!
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Torchie
Well-known member
Nice link gold03. I am on some other sites as well where they routinely chop some very diffucult tops like 59 caddys and things of that nature. i have a line on a 53 Chevy 2dr sedan that would make a great custom. But the bread just isn't there right now so.....
As Promised I got into the garage this evening and finished clamping in the filler pieces for the roof. Looks good and I didn't need to make any relief cuts. I am still not seeing so well I didn't want to start to finish tack welding the filler pices in so with everything securely clamped I moved on to the door tops.
1st pic shows the difference in the door top angle to the cab since I didn't widen the cab roof.
Some people cut thru the entire door then angle the top and weld it back on. But this is the way that I am going to do it.
2nd pic shows where I marked the ends of the inner door skin.
3rd pick shows the line that I marked acroos the entire inside door.
4th pic show where I cut thru the inside door skin up to but not thru the outer skin.
5th pic shows the cut and the fact that the door top is now flexible. I then took the grinder and opened up this gap a litttle.
6th pic show the door shut and the top of the door pulled in to line up with the cab. If you could look on the inside you would see that the gap I cut is nearly closed and will be an easy weld. Once welded it will hold the door top at the correct angle.
7th pic show the top pieces mocked into place and the gap that will have to be filled with a piece of the chopped door top.
The window channel lines up good and there should be no problem in getting the windows to work.. More eye Dr tomorrow but if all goes well I should be back to welding by the end if the week. In the meantime I will do the prep work stripping off paint and cutting the piece for the top of the door. See the next post for the rest of the pics!
Torchie[
As Promised I got into the garage this evening and finished clamping in the filler pieces for the roof. Looks good and I didn't need to make any relief cuts. I am still not seeing so well I didn't want to start to finish tack welding the filler pices in so with everything securely clamped I moved on to the door tops.
1st pic shows the difference in the door top angle to the cab since I didn't widen the cab roof.
Some people cut thru the entire door then angle the top and weld it back on. But this is the way that I am going to do it.
2nd pic shows where I marked the ends of the inner door skin.
3rd pick shows the line that I marked acroos the entire inside door.
4th pic show where I cut thru the inside door skin up to but not thru the outer skin.
5th pic shows the cut and the fact that the door top is now flexible. I then took the grinder and opened up this gap a litttle.
6th pic show the door shut and the top of the door pulled in to line up with the cab. If you could look on the inside you would see that the gap I cut is nearly closed and will be an easy weld. Once welded it will hold the door top at the correct angle.
7th pic show the top pieces mocked into place and the gap that will have to be filled with a piece of the chopped door top.
The window channel lines up good and there should be no problem in getting the windows to work.. More eye Dr tomorrow but if all goes well I should be back to welding by the end if the week. In the meantime I will do the prep work stripping off paint and cutting the piece for the top of the door. See the next post for the rest of the pics!
Torchie[
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