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GJunktionMike, I went though simular times with mine.One of the main things he used to say was" All the other kids get to do this or that". My response was" Im not raising them, Im raising you". He'll be 21 in Sept I think he's starting to see the light and realize what Ive been teaching wasnt all crap.
 
GJunktionMike, I went though simular times with mine.One of the main things he used to say was" All the other kids get to do this or that". My response was" Im not raising them, Im raising you". He'll be 21 in Sept I think he's starting to see the light and realize what Ive been teaching wasnt all crap.

Yep, I used that one alot. Hind sight always being 20/20 I would have to say that the 8 years of working out of town did the most harm. Mainly cause it was to hard to but the foot down on all the outside BS. I heard a quote once that said "2 people can have a kid, but it takes a tribe to raise them" but if half the tribe is a bunch of Idiots the out come is going to bleek.
 
And this is the biggest thing lacking today. I have two boys now 21 (2 months ago) and 23. Real hard cases, I always had to deal with thier gangbanging uncles preaching the ways of so called real life. Topped off with 8 years of working out of town. Being home 1 1/2 days a week and trying to undo 5 days of BS is no picnic.

Now I'm the so called bad guy in my family because your right or wrong, no gray area. If you are messing up then you have a problem and it is gotting to be dealt with and done right. Both of my boys grew up hating me, not because I was beating them (of coarse a swat to them is beating them) but because they were not going to rule the house and do what they pleased. I would do things like disconnect the power in thier rooms. Cut the plugs off of tvs and games. Remove thier doors and take 2 weeks to paint them. Block the phone, cable and internet.

Thing where always tence in the house but never had to go past me having to hold one down till the cops showed up. Adding to the hating me more, but oh well. We did have a coming to god about 6 months ago when the two boys thought they could tag team me. I think what hurt them the most was with all the fists flying not one was mine and I was able to take both to the ground and wait for the cops. The plus out of all this is when they start getting out of hand I tell then to knock off the crap and it is done. They know they can't take the old man now and they don't hate me as bad as they use to.

There is still a long ruff road ahead for the two boys but now they are starting to understand that, in the end you are going to pay for making bad choices.
I think you need to man up and give those boys the boot.
When my stepsons used to pull the rebellions act, I'd just tell them that if they didn't feel like they needed to listen to me anymore or follow the rules of the house, my job as a parent was finished and they were free to go if they wanted. There were 7 of them, one died in high school but the rest were on their own as soon as they graduated high school and now they are all great young men and doing well. Of course I can't take a lot of the credit.
 
The oldest boy did end up leaving shortly after the tag team match. The youngest has been hit and miss staying here, as he puts it he is getting tired of me riding him. but like I tell him "my house, my rules, don't like it feel free to use the front door".
 

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