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i can say this --- solar panel technology has come SOO far that it amazes me --- its no longer super expensive or difficult to harness - i think (and yes there are some already in place) new construction should take advantage of this - and certain institutions (like govt buildings, schools, etc) should be required to include them on ANY new construction to account for a certain % of the energy use expectations... even if its a low % ---
 
I just read an article yesterday that says we got more gas than god buried under the midwest, like over 500 trillion gallons! .....evidently the tree huggers are preventing us from sucking it out of the ground. I hope they all got lots of money cuz it ain't getting any cheaper. I just paid $3.94 9/10 gal. for propane to keep my storage garage warm and $3.74 9/10 gal for fuel for my house. Heating oil is the same price as taxed road fuel!!! WTF. Gonna really **** off the tree huggers. I'll start cutting down all the trees in the neighborhood and burn it for heat. They don't seem to understand. The trees are going to be history either way. Should let us drill for the oil and only lose a few trees instead of all of them.....sorry, did I just start ranting there a bit?[cl
 
darkk; said:
Gonna really **** off the tree huggers. I'll start cutting down all the trees in the neighborhood and burn it for heat. They don't seem to understand. The trees are going to be history either way. Should let us drill for the oil and only lose a few trees instead of all of them.....sorry, did I just start ranting there a bit?[cl
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:D[cl...too funny darkk
 
At the risk of being crucified - I work for an oil company. What most people don't realize is that the big western oil companies like Exxon, BP own less than 5% of the worlds supply of oil combined. They have no control of global oil prices. The racketeers of OPEC and other non-friendly countries that own it do.

As for the huge supplies of oil & natural gas in this country, that is true - the US has more NatGas than it could burn in hundreds of years (even more coal). Also huge reserves in Alaska, off the west coast and east coast that are totally off-limits for drilling.

Why can't we tap into all this natural wealth? Several reasons: 1. Tree-huggers and politicians (not in my backyard!!). 2. Infrastructure in this country has been built over the past 100 years for oil transport, refining and use (not Nat gas). 3. Tree huggers and politicians!!

Most of the gas we have is "stranded". That means its in places with no existing pipelines or is in pretty areas like the Rockies that no one will let drilling happen. So it just sits there and we transfer all our wealth to the Middle East so some Saudi who has never worked a day in his life can buy another platinum-plated Rolls Royce every 4 seconds

I really wish this country would embrace the T. Boone Pickens plan. He outlines how we can get totally off imported oil by utilizing our own Nat Gas and coal supplies for all our energy and transport needs for at least a couple hundred years.
 
Just watched a "this old house " solar panel hot water heating system install . Total cost for the project $ 10,000.00 .

cost to homeowner $ 3,000.00
cost to US taxpayers $ 7,000.00

With out these outrageous subsidies -with my money -none of these alternatives to OIL would be feasable . As it stands now it is mostly the rich who can afford to do it . Until they can stand on their own they are nothing more than feelgoodism for the tree huggers . What a load of crap is being dumped on our heads . DRILL BABY DRILL
 
IAM-LDS-2 said:
Just watched a "this old house " solar panel hot water heating system install . Total cost for the project $ 10,000.00 .

cost to homeowner $ 3,000.00
cost to US taxpayers $ 7,000.00

With out these outrageous subsidies -with my money -none of these alternatives to OIL would be feasable . As it stands now it is mostly the rich who can afford to do it . Until they can stand on their own they are nothing more than feelgoodism for the tree huggers . What a load of crap is being dumped on our heads . DRILL BABY DRILL
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you have to keep in mind -- if you live in a colder climate region and have an electric water heater and electric central heating -- more than 1/2 of your electricity bill a month is from running those two items ...
and if the system would have been put in as part of a build in a new house -- it would have cost a little less ---

plus the govt, oil /electric companies have the "tree huggers" bent over a barrel - - for instance right by my house there are hundreds of wind turbines -- but they are rarely all spinning and sometimes there are NONE spinning -- the reason for this is they are only allowed to provide a certain amount of energy into the grid to keep electricity prices where they want them
 
Irish, i didn't mean for this to beany kind of an attack on american workers, it was just a rant on "the system" in general, and yes the OPEC people are the ones to blame!

BTW gas up again here another 10 cents
 
cantwell.colton said:
plus the govt, oil /electric companies have the "tree huggers" bent over a barrel - - for instance right by my house there are hundreds of wind turbines -- but they are rarely all spinning and sometimes there are NONE spinning -- the reason for this is they are only allowed to provide a certain amount of energy into the grid to keep electricity prices where they want them
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Electricity is a national commodity, not a local one. Electric producers can and do send power all over the country as demands dictate (within certain range limits). The whole grid is interconnected.

Fortunately for us, electricity is not controlled by OPEC or any artificial means and "price fixing" like you are describing is against the law in this country. Those turbines aren't spinning for economic reasons. Power companies in TX produce power by burning NatGas (elsewhere it might be coal). The price of NatGas has been incredibly low for most of 2010 (and wells have gotten shut down, people laid off). It is cheaper to buy & burn NatGas right now than it is to operate a wind turbine. Turbines are incredibly expensive and require expensive maintenance to keep them running, have a finite lifespan, etc. Sometimes it is actually cheaper just to shut them down and wait for a better day to run them.
 
An in-law of mine has a company that wires wind turbines. And my grandson (Zacho here on RRR) is just finishing wind turbine school. Steve, the owner, who makes lots of money servicing the industry, states that wind energy is not practical with current technology and cannot stand on it's own. It is just another "feel good" alternative. I know a couple people that have spend many thousands of dollars to "get off the grid" They will have to live to be 500 years old to recoup their investment.
Planners keep trying to fit America into the European model. With dense housing and public transportation. Along with the benefit of space, which we have, comes some costs. The cost of transportation is one.
In the 70's I paid $7.00 a gallon for gas in Ireland. By comparison, we're still doing ok.
When I was in high school gas was 25 cents a gallon but I earned a buck an hour. So gas cost 25% of my hourly pay. Today if gas cost $4.00 and your hourly rate is $16.00 it would be the same. Back then my old jalopies would get maybe 15 MPG. Today a little car or truck can average 25 MPG. Hard to see it this way, but it is cheaper now than then, under these circumstances.
One thing I can't understand at all is in semi-socialist Europe nuclear power plants are common and accepted. Here, we won't build them.

At lastly, if natural gas is as plentiful as it seems to be in this country, wouldn't that be the fuel to pursue for transportation? Wendle, who is in Australia and has a very fine build thread here on RRR is using LPG in his truck. I'm unfamiliar with the chemistry implications of this proposal but I'll bet Big Irish can enlighten us.
 
BigIrish - I agree about T Bone's ideas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickens_Plan

As a hunter that has be fourtunate to see an enjoy some of the last remaining wilderness areas I'll take the "tree-huggers" over the "corporate robber barrons" any day.

This country was founded on a rebelion from the oppression of Big Business ( Dutch-India trading co. & East India Trading Co.) and Non representive Government (Eglish Crown).

Over that last 200+ years we have forgot the very reason we became a country. I think most of the things the framers were afraid would happen, have happened.

Forgive my rant on our march toward Political Ecomnic Apocalypse
 
bob w said:
At lastly, if natural gas is as plentiful as it seems to be in this country, wouldn't that be the fuel to pursue for transportation?
Absolutely Bob, and that is the cornerstone of the Pickens plan - use natgas for transportation. Its plentiful, cheap, clean, and requires very little refining in most cases. Here's the issues with it currently as I understand them:

1. Transport of gas to areas where it can be used. Gas can't be put on a rail car or truck and carted around the country (economically anyway). The only way is via pipeline, which means every single little gas well has to be interconnected to a main pipeline. VERY expensive to lay down millions of miles of pipe and you run into the problem with "not in my backyard" everywhere you try to lay down a pipeline route, so you have to buy up all the land the pipe runs through.

2. Conversion of cars, trucks & trains to run CNG and conversion of millions of service stations to store CNG under very high pressure and dispense CNG safely. You have to factor in that most service stations are not owned by Big Oil anymore, they sold those to thousands of individual biz owners. It says Shell on the sign but its not owned by Shell, they just sell Shell's gas. The costs are huge and there are safety issues with cars & trucks with pressurized explosive gas running around. Not insurmountable, but very expensive

It would take a massive gov't commitment to get this started and invest in the infrastructure. Even Big Oil can't afford this kind of investment.

Nuclear is the same deal - no one wants a plant in thier city and no one wants nuclear waste transported through thier city to a safe storage facility. Everyone screams at thier local leaders to stop it...and they do.
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BigIrish - Valid points on Natural gas logistics. So why not convert our Electrical plants to N-Gas. That might offer a "cleaner" electrical suppy.
 
Fe2O3 said:
BigIrish - Valid points on Natural gas logistics. So why not convert our Electrical plants to N-Gas. That might offer a "cleaner" electrical suppy.
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In areas of the country where gas is accessible, they already do run NatGas. Hardly any plants burn oil anymore. It's either coal or NatGas. Again you have the transport and cost issue.

It's hard to justify the cost of piping NatGas from TX up to the east coast where they have plenty of cheap coal to burn. Everyone wants cheap, clean power, but when it comes down to it...most people will pick cheap over clean. The coal industry is also huge and powerful and has millions of dollars worth lobbyists in Washington making sure the the coal keeps burning.
 
Many years ago i got some advice from a man who delt in numbers . He told me raw numbers do not tell the real story . You have to convert the raw numbers to percentages to find out true info . For example , if you say I took in a million dollars to day - which by any bodys standards is a lot of money - it would have to be related to what it cost you to bring that amount in . The percent left after expenses is the real number you need to know if any money was being made . As an example BIG OIL is ranked 56th in overall profit margin for American companies . Their profit margin is 9.5 % . When i had my small pest conterol business my profit margin was over 50% . Good thing I wasn't selling oil . The R&D in the gas and oil industry is humungous . Remember the "golden rule " he who has the gold rules . Like it or not , that's they way its .

PS the nat gas is coming to the east coast . The fracking process in the Marcellis shale fields is only in year 3 of an estimated 23 years of development . There will not be any producing wells untill the pipe line is 100% complete . The pipe line is being constructed as we speak . My brother in law hauls water for the new wells being fracked . Last week he counted 145 trucks at one well site . He works 14 hours a day , 5-6 days a week . Some sites in W VA are so remote they pull the water trucks up the haul roads with D-8 buldozers . Speaking of buldozers , my oldest son is operating one in N Pa , 12 hours a day 7 days a week , some sites have lights and the eq runs around the clock . Can't imangine what the R&D is costing .
 
donsrods said:
My daily driver runs on premium and it just hit $ 3.69-$ 3.89 a gallon here. Regular is now $ 3.49-$3.59. Bet a lot of pickups and suv's start going real cheap soon. :(

Don
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That's less than half the price of gas in the UK. And the only difference is that our government are stiffing us on tax more than yours is. :mad:

Where I live in the Philippines we pay pretty much the same for gas as the USA does. Diesel fuel is cheaper by about 20% though.

I might stuff a straight six turbo diesel in my hot rod, instead of the planned SBC. A big one, one that whistles as it loads up, with a tall 4" stack going straight up out of the engine bay. :D
 
Fe2O3 said:
I thought this made a lot of sence, along with wind & solar.
http://www.darvill.clara.net/altenerg/tidal.htm

Not an immediate answer to all our energy problems just a start. But, until we get it out of our heads to "Drill baby Drill"....It will get worse before it gets better.
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I'll bet I'm not the only one here that needs to be educated . Just what are all our energy problems ?
 

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