traditional steering help needed

[deerchooper]

hello,

I never drove a traditional steering car or built one with it.

I have a death wobble issue.
I-beam set at 8* back.
toe in? ive been playing with it to find a sweet spot.
bias ply tires
pit man arm was 2" above bone pivot point, I have cut down to center it with the bone.

ive ran these tires on my rat rod with no problems.

the problem.
the front tires start to wobble left and right with a nice wobble.
it does it at all speeds, normally after some little bump or wave in the road.
brakes or power out of it will fix it for the time being.


what have I done to fix it.
flipped front tires side to side.
played with toe in.
cut pit man arm down to match bone pivot point.
new spindles, king pin w/bushings, hemi's joints to connect steering links
early 60's mustang box

I almost ordered a bug steering dampener but I wanted to solve the problem first, but if I cant I will.
no pan hard bar.

I know pictures will help, but that will be tonight.
just wanted to get the thread started to pick you guy's brain. I thought I covered everything when trying to fix it but I must have missed something.

 

[Dirtyrat]

What do you have your toe setting at?

 

[Gastrick]

Have you tried using known good or new shocks?

 

[deerchooper]

New shocks, 1/2" toe in right now.

I took some pics with my phone. Have to get them on my computer to post them here.

 

[deerchooper]

Think I figured the pic out.

U can see how much I cut off of the pitman arm.

 

[deerchooper]

Think I figured the pic out.

U can see how much I cut off of the pitman arm.

This is tough lol

 

[Gastrick]

1/2" of toe seems like a lot to me. I have good results at 1/8" but you may have already tried that.

 

[dmw56]

try going back a couple degree In Caster and see how that works

 

[deerchooper]

I just kept playing with the toe. before I set it down again ill get it back to the 1/8"

im at 8* back now, would setting it at 10 really help? I know each machine is different but my rat is only at 6* but it has cross steer.

my buddy set my tire pressure at 30lbs, im going to drop it down to the low 20's to see what that does. im also going to try a set of 205/75 r14 to see if it will do it with wider tires.

when I took the pics earlier I noticed the right front rotor is a little loose. so I will pop the cap off and tighten it up some.

to many things to play with.

 

[RustyNCA]

You might also want to step back and get some photos that show the entire setup.

Cheers

 

[deerchooper]

this is what it looked like before I wacked the pit man arm in the beginning.

 

[sgtpontiac]

There are so many things that can cause it.....

Donsrods did a great post back in 09 I think.....http://ratrodsrule.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9747
Check it out and go over each item.....one by one....pretty good info.....

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

I just kept playing with the toe. before I set it down again ill get it back to the 1/8"

im at 8* back now, would setting it at 10 really help? I know each machine is different but my rat is only at 6* but it has cross steer.

my buddy set my tire pressure at 30lbs, im going to drop it down to the low 20's to see what that does. im also going to try a set of 205/75 r14 to see if it will do it with wider tires.

when I took the pics earlier I noticed the right front rotor is a little loose. so I will pop the cap off and tighten it up some.

to many things to play with.

I think dmw is saying... take some caster out. Did you set 8* at ride height or frame level? Could be the pictures, but it looks like you may have some "reverse rake".

Lower tire pressure will likely make it worse. Too much wheel offset can also contribute.

.

Edit: (Asleep at the wheel ) See Sarge's post ^^^^

.

 

[zzrodder]

That is an awfully short pitman arm though it may be an OK trade-off to have the drag link line up right... doesn't it make the steering a bit heavy feeling? It would reduce the mechanical advantage of the steering and any play in the box could be magnified.
Loose rotor would not help for sure..
Looks like you have all new parts - you may be dealing with more than one problem adding up to the wobble.
Here's an obvious thing to check but I'll say it anyway... when you have a tire off the ground and spin it, does it always stop a the same spot?? Possible rotor/tire/wheel imbalance.
Like the others said 1/8" toe in is normal and 5 or 6 degrees castor

 

[deerchooper]

thanks sarge

the 8* is at ride height.

thanks zz

it steers easy, my buddy of rod for a long time cant be leave it but he likes it a lot. the only bad thing with that short arm is your cranking the wheel a lot.

if I get time tonight ill mess with some things tonight. its raining today.

 

[RPM]

We have this problem all the time with T Buckets. Set the toe at 1/8-1/4" out and it will fix the problem.

 

[Dirtyrat]

We have this problem all the time with T Buckets. Set the toe at 1/8-1/4" out and it will fix the problem.

And that makes a lot of sense, if you have the toe setting in, you are basically fighting both wheels angling inward, which can cause a wobble.

Toe out may help that, I would think. I hear its a fine line of getting it right, hope you sort it out!

 

[deerchooper]

That's what makes it hard to fix some things like the front end. Some ppl say set it this way then the next guy says no this way. U would think it would be cut and dry. Set camber here, caster here, shock angle here, connect both wheels to box and steering wheel start motor and enjoy.

Please keep them coming. I will try all the easy ones first, steering damper second then the cut off wheel, welder and rattle can last.

 

[deerchooper]

We have this problem all the time with T Buckets. Set the toe at 1/8-1/4" out and it will fix the problem.

you win, I went from one to the other. 3/16" toe out and we ran for about 2 hrs with no problem.

ill adjust it closer to center to toe in down the road.

 

[RPM]

you win, I went from one to the other. 3/16" toe out and we ran for about 2 hrs with no problem.

ill adjust it closer to center to toe in down the road.

Best part is it didn't cost anything to correct. [cl